thoughts on the announced Kodak film price increase?

[laingsoft]

I don't really understand this idea of shooting lower cost film when its not important. When is it not important? I guess it depends on how you approach photography, and how and what you shoot, and what you plan to do with the image after you shoot it. If I were just posting pictures of my lunch on Instagram I might think about using a lower cost film. Actually, I would just shoot digital. I guess everybody is different.

I shoot a lot of landscapes, so if I'm driving 5+ hours out to the mountains to take some photos, I'll likely use a better film stock. If I'm out for a walk with my dogs and my wife I would likely use a cheaper stock because the technical quality of the photos isn't as important, and I still get to enjoy the developing and printing or hybrid workflow if I want to. I like digital for home movies though.

 

[mshchem]

Yes I know EK still makes the film. I'm just saying if Don's musing ever came to pass, I would be done.

MeToo!

 

[YoIaMoNwater]

Unfortunately in terms of predicting the effect on Kodak film sales isn't the fact that each of us, me included, is by and large giving our own opinion and assuming that if most or even enough of the rest of the film buying community think the same but we just don't know

All we can say is that it is likely that there comes a point at which the recent frequency and size of increases is almost bound to adversely affect film sales to the detriment of revenue. Where that point is I don't know. The size of our participatory group is, I feel, far too small to really be significant in statistical terms

pentaxuser

I'm just surprised that Kodak has been increasing its price A LOT than any other film production company, more so without any public statements. We, as consumers have to scout onto the Internet in order to verify if the price hikes are legitimate. Also, I'm not sure why their online presence (via Instagram) is promoting in Kodak branded clothes, rather than their films. They seem to be completely out of touch with their consumers.

This dude abides no more. Not at these prices. So long Kodak, will miss TMY2.

Thankfully I have loaded my fridge with rare bulk rolls of E100S and Provia. I still have 3 rolls of modern E100 in the freezer that I might sell once they reach the price of gold (probably really soon).

 

[Pieter12]

I'm just surprised that Kodak has been increasing its price A LOT than any other film production company, more so without any public statements. We, as consumers have to scout onto the Internet in order to verify if the price hikes are legitimate. Also, I'm not sure why their online presence (via Instagram) is promoting in Kodak branded clothes, rather than their films. They seem to be completely out of touch with their consumers.

I am not sure why you think a manufacturer has any obligation to their customers beyond providing a safe and reliable product. They can continue to sell film at whatever prices they want to charge, that's their business.

 

[YoIaMoNwater]

I am not sure why you think a manufacturer has any obligation to their customers beyond providing a safe and reliable product. They can continue to sell film at whatever prices they want to charge, that's their business.

So it's ok for them to make an announcement on the canister change but not for price hikes? Also, that last sentence is literally the definition of monopoly.

 

[DMJ]

I'm saving to buy a Leica M Monochrom. No more film after that, maybe paper negatives for my old cameras. See you in the Metaverse...

 

[faberryman]

So it's ok for them to make an announcement on the canister change but not for price hikes?

Sure. Why not? May not be the best thing from a public relations standpoint, but I don't see them having some sort of moral or ethical obligation to make an announcement on price hikes. You'll know soon enough.

Also, that last sentence is literally the definition of monopoly.

Kodak doesn't have a monopoly on still film. Consumers have choices. Of course not as many as they formerly had.

 

[YoIaMoNwater]

but I don't see them having some sort of moral or ethical obligation to make an announcement on price hikes. You'll know soon enough.

Nah we won't. Otherwise we would've have gotten one last year as well.

Kodak doesn't have a monopoly on still film. Consumers have choices. Of course not as many as they formerly had.

I was making a point that Pieter's comment implied Kodak can jack up their price without a proper reason.

Regarding consumer choices, they are quite limited, especially color films. You have either Kodak or Fujifilm and that's literally it (besides repacked/rebanded ones like Lomo and other "experimental" films). That's the problem with monopoly, when there is no competition then the company can dictate whatever prices they want. I was honestly surprised Fujifilm didn't charge an absurd amount for their E6 films before Kodak remake Ektachrome.

 

[Pieter12]

Nah we won't. Otherwise we would've have gotten one last year as well.


I was making a point that Pieter's comment implied Kodak can jack up their price without a proper reason.

Regarding consumer choices, they are quite limited, especially color films. You have either Kodak or Fujifilm and that's literally it (besides repacked/rebanded ones like Lomo and other "experimental" films). That's the problem with monopoly, when there is no competition then the company can dictate whatever prices they want. I was honestly surprised Fujifilm didn't charge an absurd amount for their E6 films before Kodak remake Ektachrome.

And they can. And HP can lower their prices with no reason (unless they're dumping product, thot is illegal). There's no monopoly here, Kodak still has competition. Look at what Apple does with their prices. It's what the market will bear.

 

[removed account4]

Yes I know EK still makes the film. I'm just saying if Don's musing ever came to pass, I would be done.

MeToo!

wow. so if you can't use kodak film you would never make photographs again?

Kodak doesn't have a monopoly on still film. Consumers have choices. Of course not as many as they formerly had.

but I guess there are photographers who will never use anything else, and if they are priced out of the market
then they will just stop altogether ..

sounds extreme to me but im not in their shoes and socks

 

[faberryman]

I was making a point that Pieter's comment implied Kodak can jack up their price without a proper reason.

Kodak can raise prices for a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason at all.

Regarding consumer choices, they are quite limited, especially color films. You have either Kodak or Fujifilm and that's literally it (besides repacked/rebanded ones like Lomo and other "experimental" films). That's the problem with monopoly, when there is no competition then the company can dictate whatever prices they want.

Have you seen the price for buggy whips lately?

I was honestly surprised Fujifilm didn't charge an absurd amount for their E6 films before Kodak remake Ektachrome.

Fuji probably thought they were charging what the market would bear, and significant price hikes would cause customers to give up slides altogether.

 

[YoIaMoNwater]

And they can. And HP can lower their prices with no reason (unless they're dumping product, thot is illegal). There's no monopoly here, Kodak still has competition. Look at what Apple does with their prices. It's what the market will bear.

Kodak has literally Fujifilm to compete for color films. Who else makes color films, Ferrania? /s

Comparing Kodak to Apple is like comparing oranges to apples... We can also go into the argument about PC and laptops, etc etc, but that's way out of scope.

Kodak can raise prices for a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason at all.

And?

Have you seen the price for buggy whips lately?

Buggy whips? What are you smoking?

Fuji probably thought they were charging what the market would bear, and significant price hikes would cause customers to give up slides altogether.

So basically the same now with the price hike? Or are you saying that Fuji missed out on a huge potential profit from slides.

I get we have a supply and demand issue caused by the pandemic, but come on, why are you guys keep saying that's "what the market will bear"? Do any of you even work for Kodak or any major film production companies?

 

[removed account4]

Kodak can raise prices for a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason at all.

its funny that you said that
because when I first started charging people to make photographs for them
I told a friend what my day rate was and he laughed and told me that if that is what I was charging "last year" I was a putz
because it is standard business practice to increase prices by 5 or 10% every year, like for no reason at all except to just do it.
thanks for reminding me to raise my rates, covid fog made me forget.

 

[faberryman]

its funny that you said that
because when I first started charging people to make photographs for them
I told a friend what my day rate was and he laughed and told me that if that is what I was charging "last year" I was a putz
because it is standard business practice to increase prices by 5 or 10% every year, like for no reason at all except to just do it.
thanks for reminding me to raise my rates, covid fog made me forget.

When I said Kodak can raise prices for a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason at all, I did not mean to imply there would be no consequences from their actions.

 

[removed account4]

When I said Kodak can raise prices for a good reason, a bad reason, or no reason at all, I did not mean to imply there would be no consequences from their actions.

there are consequences to ever action !

I wish my 1,000,000 followers on IG and YOUTUBE k-new my ID here they would be dumfounded by this thread.

 

[Pieter12]

its funny that you said that
because when I first started charging people to make photographs for them
I told a friend what my day rate was and he laughed and told me that if that is what I was charging "last year" I was a putz
because it is standard business practice to increase prices by 5 or 10% every year, like for no reason at all except to just do it.
thanks for reminding me to raise my rates, covid fog made me forget.

Generally, prices and rates go up with inflation and the cost of living. I believe it was Edward Weston who found that shooting portraits was taking up too much of his time and he wanted to do more personal work. He doubled his rates. And his business increased, because folks figured if he can charge those prices, he must be really good.

It is a shame we live in a world obsessed with getting the cheapest price for everything. Add to that rampant consumerism. We end up with unsafe, crowded sweatshops paying a pittance so folks can buy $5 T-shirts. We end up with companies so focused on lowering their costs that they push workers beyond reasonable hours and conditions. I realize some of those that buy the $5 T-shirt is all they can afford, but part of that is because they earn so little--a vicious circle. Part of the worker shortage being experienced today in the U.S. is because some are no longer willing to work for wages that won't even pay their rent.

 

[flavio81]

yes, it was shrunk very shrunk.

The film market did shrink in the past and this impacted all major manufacturers, in particular Kodak and Fuji.

However, after this reduction, the demand has only gone up, and up, and up, and up, as @Henning Serger duly noted here, every year, every month.

 

[NB23]

What’s up with Ferrania?

 

[faberryman]

Kodak has literally Fujifilm to compete for color films. Who else makes color films, Ferrania? /s

As far as I know, just Kodak and Fuji are manufacturing color film. Perhaps there are others. I don't know, for example, who makes color film for the Chinese market. I also don't know who makes Lomography's purple film and other specialty products. I am sure others on the forum do. If demand for film increases, and Kodak and Fuji are unable to meet that demand, then perhaps another company will begin manufacturing color film and will provide some competition. I seem to remember a recent post saying that ORWO is going to begin offering a color film, but I may be mistaken.

Buggy whips? What are you smoking?

It is a metaphor for what happens when demand falls for a product such that only one or a few companies are needed to satisfy the demand.

So basically the same now with the price hike? Or are you saying that Fuji missed out on a huge potential profit from slides

I suggested that Fuji may have chosen not to raise prices significantly for its E6 offerings because it was concerned that people would simply stop shooting slide film. Are you familiar with the aphorism "Pigs get fed, hogs get slaughtered"?

I get we have a supply and demand issue caused by the pandemic, but come on, why are you guys keep saying that's "what the market will bear"? Do any of you even work for Kodak or any major film production companies?

I do not work for a film company. The basic relationships of supply, demand, and price are not exactly rocket science. The phrase "what the market will bear" is self-explanatory.

 

[Pieter12]

why are you guys keep saying that's "what the market will bear"?

Are people still buying film? Then that means the market is bearing the price.

 

[BrianShaw]

Are people still buying film? Then that means the market is bearing the price.

Yes it does. It also could mean that those same people are buying less film than before, or less than the might had the price been lower. No matter… it is what it is.

 

[faberryman]

It is a shame we live in a world obsessed with getting the cheapest price for everything.

The topic does seem to be a popular one on the forum.

 

[removed account4]

I would still make photographs, but would be done with Kodak.

do you have a camera brand you only use too ?

 

[Sirius Glass]

So it's ok for them to make an announcement on the canister change but not for price hikes? Also, that last sentence is literally the definition of monopoly.

No monopolies, you can start your own film company anytime you want.

 

[AgX]

Kodak has literally Fujifilm to compete for color films. Who else makes color films, Ferrania? /s

At the moment next to Kodak and Fuji only Inoviscoat is making colour film.