Thoughts on Tech Pan

VPooler · Oct 19, 2013

Greetings!

I recently got my hands on some (okay, a lot) of Tech Pan. I'd like to hear your thoughts on how to expose and develop it for optimum pictorial results. I have so far processed micro/tech films in Rodinal 1h full stand, 1+100 dilution but as I have read so far, that is not the way to go. I'd prefer to stay using Rodinal as my go-to developer but I am willing to experiment.
So yeah, shoot, I have never used TP before and I frankly don't know what to expect besides wicked contrast and interesting spectral response.

-Vallo

agfarapid · Oct 19, 2013

I haven't used Tech Pan in many years. However, in the past, I've had excellent results with D-76 1:1. I wouldn't suggest Rodinal (at any dilution) for this film because it is not optimized for ultra fine grain films like Tech Pan. I believe that Ilford markets a developer with very similar characteristics to D 76.

Jan-Peter · Oct 19, 2013

Hi, Vallo, to Estonia;

my brother and I have developed quite a lot of Kodak TP 2415, Technical Pan films, from a 35mm bulk-roll. Now our experiences for pictoral photography:

Technidol LC powder developer, dilution: 1+3, 28°C - 16min. - e.g. 7 grs. on 260 ml; - exposed with 25 ASA speed - or

Tetenal Neofin doku; 2/3 to 3/4 ampulla per film, 20°C and 14 min. - exposed with 50 ASA speed.

As what we could see is, the shorter ans warmer you develop the smoother the result - though still fairly contrasty, resulting in Grade 1 or 2 when enlarging on photographic paper.

Jan-Peter

lifthard1 · Oct 19, 2013

Have you looked at TD3 ,Ive souped a few rolls of TP in it and does quit well.

StoneNYC · Oct 19, 2013

Tech pan is so fine grained, even Rodinal would probably be fine, that said, finding some technidol (or home made version which the name escapes me sadly) is best.

If you have a lot 1 you can experiment, 2 can I have some (trade?). Especially if you have something other than 35mm

I did send some tech pan through DD-X if I recall correctly with really nice results, I'll have to check that when I get home though.

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jp498 · Oct 19, 2013

I think photographers formulary might make something similar to technidol.

Back in the 90's, I used some tech pan and the technidol worked much nicer than d76 for pictorial use. It's expensive and old now.

John Bartley · Oct 19, 2013

I have several rolls of Tech Pan 120 in the freezer. I only had one developer on hand when I tried the first roll in my Rolleicord, so I used it. It was D23 and it worked fine as far as I was concerned.

EdSawyer · Oct 19, 2013

How much is a lot? Technidol is the best way to go, no question.

VPooler · Oct 20, 2013

By a lot I mean that I have two bulk rolls, 5 inches and 150 feet each (should last me for ages). I am going to cut 4x5, 5x7 sheets and 120 rolls from them, according to what I need at the moment. First I have to make a rig to cut it to size before I can even test it.
Please bear in mind that I live in the middle of nowhere and chemicals are hard to come by here. We have an assortment of Foma stuff, some HC-110 occasionally and some ID-11, plus Ilford Multigrade for paper and C41 kits. Anything else needs to be ordered from somewhere else and customs are rather strict, they managed to confiscate a can of Ethol developer once. I might give HC-110 a shot but I'd rather not spend any more money and use Rodinal. Grain is not an issue, I even souped 35mm TMax P3200 in Rodinal. But price and shelf life is because I shoot only occasionally and in small batches.
So yeah, back to the original question - has anyone here souped TP in Rodinal and how successful were you?
Thanks,
-Vallo

AgX · Oct 20, 2013

Over here the only developer available intended for the Kodak Tech Pan is Rollei RLC.

polyglot · Oct 20, 2013

There are lots of TP threads here if you search, but the summary of developers to use are:
- Technidol if you can get it
- Neofin Doku (which is NOT Neofin Blue) if you can get it
- C41 developer at 20C (no bleach!)
- Rodinal 1+200 or so, maybe stand
- Xtol, but that only gets you EI6 I think

I recently scored 80 feet of it in 70mm (very old), so I'll be trying the C41 option soon.

VPooler · Oct 20, 2013

I'll try to cut some into sheets in the coming days and soup it in dilute Rodinal and see what happens. Found a source that suggested 1+150 for 10 minutes @ISO40

StoneNYC · Oct 20, 2013

polyglot said:
There are lots of TP threads here if you search, but the summary of developers to use are:
- Technidol if you can get it
- Neofin Doku (which is NOT Neofin Blue) if you can get it
- C41 developer at 20C (no bleach!)
- Rodinal 1+200 or so, maybe stand
- Xtol, but that only gets you EI6 I think

I recently scored 80 feet of it in 70mm (very old), so I'll be trying the C41 option soon.

Oh tell me the results! I have the same amount in 70mm and would like options

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polyglot · Oct 20, 2013

Sure. It needs to get through the post first though! And don't forget I'm a lazy bastard.

Neal · Oct 21, 2013

I normally use C-41 developer, 10min (I actually use 8:30 in Jobo at high speed), 20°C, box speed, normal Kodak agitation. C-41 developer is easy to find and the process works fine without resorting to special agitation schemes.

From an old Photo Techniques "Mastering Black-and-White Photography Volume 1".

Neal Wydra

StoneNYC · Oct 21, 2013

Neal said:
I normally use C-41 developer, 10min (I actually use 8:30 in Jobo at high speed), 20°C, box speed, normal Kodak agitation. C-41 developer is easy to find and the process works fine without resorting to special agitation schemes.

From an old Photo Techniques "Mastering Black-and-White Photography Volume 1".

Neal Wydra

Why specifically does C-41 work/chosen?

Wouldn't a fine grain specifically B&W developer work best? like DD-X or Perceptol or that technidol-ish clone dev I can't think of the name right now...

But I guess I just don't understand, tech pan is SO fine grained, that you could use Rodinal 1:100 stand development and still get finer grain than other films (probably, I haven't tested that, and won't waste my "precious" on that, but I may do one in rodinal just for kicks).

I did soup a roll of Tech Pan in DD-X with good results, granted the scan is low quality 1200dpi and the holder wasn't flat, but the 3200 test scan revealed no grain at all, I just wanted to save on file size since they were "fun" test shots not real photography so the added megabites weren't needed, but at least you can see the contrast etc. This was exported at 300dpi at 850 on the short edge (opposite of APUG members gallery limit).

PS the question really is to anyone... why can't you just use DD-X or something, what's wrong with that, what are you loosing by not using technidol?

VPooler · Oct 21, 2013

Extremely dilute Rodinal seems to fit the second description as well, especially stand development.

I got another question - how's the reciprocity? I plan on doing quite a lot of low-light shots.

polyglot · Oct 21, 2013

C41 is used because it has very low activity, i.e. it is a low-contrast developer. And it obtains its low contrast, as Michael says, without being a compensating developer, which means your highlights won't be all dead like they are in extremely-diluted Rodinal.

Colour developers like C41 are also B&W developers (because the sensitive part of a colour film is still silver halide!), but they have additional ingredients mixed in that will activate the dye couplers in the film when a bit of silver halide is reduced to silver metal. Obviously those additional ingredients do nothing on a B&W film, but they don't hurt anything either. Similarly you can develop C41 film in a B&W developer and get a B&W image - the silver is formed but the dyes are not.

StoneNYC · Oct 22, 2013

VPooler said:
Extremely dilute Rodinal seems to fit the second description as well, especially stand development.

I got another question - how's the reciprocity? I plan on doing quite a lot of low-light shots.

Buy the reciprocity app for the iPhone, it had tech pan (I think it does... The 2.0 version is coming out soon and it certainly has it, the guy on LFF invented it and it's spectacular! (And worth the money).

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StoneNYC · Oct 22, 2013

Oh I get it... Well, I like the contrast... To me, that's sort of the point of shooting it (for me).

Thanks

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VPooler · Oct 22, 2013

Well, cutting the film is a massive PITA, I'm off to store tomorrow to buy a proper cutter. Wasted about 5 frames worth of film fiddling with scissors and knives but managed to get one test shot. Didn't bother to scan it but it looks very good, a bit underdeveloped but good. Rodinal 1+200, 900ml soup in tank at room temperature. 7 minutes, agitation every minute for 5 seconds, 10 second initial agitation, inversion halfway through and one minute before pouring away the soup. The shadows could use a bit more development and the highlights were a bit thin. I'll try 10 minutes next time, should be about right. It is contrasty but not too contrasty. Pleasing, I would say. Has a distinctive look and feel.

VPooler · Oct 22, 2013

Michael R 1974 said:
I would say you've got the right approach. Use a film for its characteristics rather than fighting it and trying to make it do something else.

Thats why I even started to bother with it. I have used microfilm before and I liked the contrast and sort-of dramatic yet muted feel. Only this time, I have red sensitivity and therefore much easier exposure measuring. I used Kodak 2462 before that is only blue sensitive. Exposing it was hard but I can rely on TP-s speed and low reciprocity failure. I see no point in trying to tame it too much, I have other films for that.

StoneNYC · Oct 22, 2013

Michael R 1974 said:
I would say you've got the right approach. Use a film for its characteristics rather than fighting it and trying to make it do something else.

Thanks, makes sense to me.

I do see the value in knowing how to develop it as low contrast if you're for example shooting 35mm and planning to make a 40x60 print with high definition, tech pan is one of your only options and knowing how to lessen the contrast are valuable.

But mostly I try not fighting with film.

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EdSawyer · Oct 22, 2013

Technidol also results in the best grain structure, it's not just about taming contrast. Almost criminal to use it (TP) without the proper developer...

VPooler · Oct 22, 2013

TP has many uses and many possible developers, Technidol is just one of them, for pictorial work. I see no reason why one can't use it to even make transparencies and whatnot.

Thoughts on Tech Pan

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