Thoughts on designs for a 300mm, 6x6 point-and-shoot, set around hyperfocal

[Terence]

I often find myself wanting to take photos of things I can't get too close to, such as abandoned buildings across a river, cranes far behind a fenceline, etc. I'm looking to make something like a 300mm equivalent of a Hasselblad SWC, or an Ermanox for you antique camera folks, though probably not with a Hasselblad quality lens. I prefer 6x6 because it seems to be the best bang for the buck at the moment. My goal is a good intersection of portability versus image quality. I want it to be light enough that I can keep it in my work bag without regretting it every day. Of course I don't want to break the bank either. If neither of those were a consideration I'd just lug my 500CM with a 150mm and a 2x. Hyperfocal is fine for my intended use, though I'd love the ability to focus, but not the additional weight. I'd be fine with an f/8 lens.

My first thoughts are:

[A] Using the body of an old 120, 6x6 folder with a bad bellows, or fungus'd out lens. Rip the lens, bellows and door/struts off, and mount a thin-wall PVC pipe with . . . the cheapest 300mm large format lens I can find? I think I might even have a 12" Commercial Ektar in my deep storage, though it might need a shutter CLA. It's also not very small or light.

Using a Graflock 22/23 back, and doing something similar. Though 6x9 is not my ideal format, they seem to be cheaper, and more readily available.

Just trying to bounce ideas off people before I start sketching things, or acquiring any new gear (I have far too much already, so a lot of this might be in my boxes somewhere anyway). I'd love a better quality lens, but all the MF lenses I can think of weigh as much as, or more than, the rest of the intended camera.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Hyperfocal for a 300 mm lens, even at f/16, will be far away. Building across the river is probably fine. Otherwise, a 300 mm on 6x6 is only 4x over the normal 75 mm, however; I don't know if you'd get what you want...

 

[AnselMortensen]

Maybe a Wollensak 15" Tele-Raptar?

 

[Terence]

Hyperfocal for a 300 mm lens, even at f/16, will be far away. Building across the river is probably fine. Otherwise, a 300 mm on 6x6 is only 4x over the normal 75 mm, however; I don't know if you'd get what you want...

Closest I'd need anything in focus is probably over 600' for my intended uses. Using various DOF calculators, it looks like I should be fine with that.

 

[Terence]

Maybe a Wollensak 15" Tele-Raptar?

Hmmm. I think I have a Dallmeyer tele 12" f/4.5 somewhere, but as I recall, it's pretty heavy. Like it weighed almost as much as my Speed Graphic I used it with many moons ago.

 

[ic-racer]

Are you familiar with Andreas Feininger's long-focus lens work and his unique camera. Might give you some ideas:

 

[ic-racer]

The Horseman 2x converter is an inexpensive way to make a compact 300mm lens from just about any common 150mm lens.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Hasselblad 250mm C lens
Hasselblad 500mm C lens
C lenses are much less expensive than the CF and later lenses plus each could be used with a 2X extender.

 

[blee1996]

A reasonably lightweight 300mm lens with shutter might be the main challenge, Wonder if those 2x3 press cameras have anything in that range (Mamiya, Horseman, Graflex). Then you will have roll film back as well. So less hacking for you.

Other smaller 300mm LF lenses are the Fuji A series, APO Nikkor, Geronar, and other process lenses. They are typically with aperture at f/9 or smaller, but you won't care since you will be zone focusing. Some of them come in a shutter.

 

[Helge]

Are you familiar with Andreas Feininger's long-focus lens work and his unique camera. Might give you some ideas:



View attachment 341484

Never seen that one before. He was a genius of some sort. Very unique photographer.
Most of his early long lens work was on large format, so probably not relevant for OP.

 

[Helge]

I often find myself wanting to take photos of things I can't get too close to, such as abandoned buildings across a river, cranes far behind a fenceline, etc. I'm looking to make something like a 300mm equivalent of a Hasselblad SWC, or an Ermanox for you antique camera folks, though probably not with a Hasselblad quality lens. I prefer 6x6 because it seems to be the best bang for the buck at the moment. My goal is a good intersection of portability versus image quality. I want it to be light enough that I can keep it in my work bag without regretting it every day. Of course I don't want to break the bank either. If neither of those were a consideration I'd just lug my 500CM with a 150mm and a 2x. Hyperfocal is fine for my intended use, though I'd love the ability to focus, but not the additional weight. I'd be fine with an f/8 lens.

My first thoughts are:

[A] Using the body of an old 120, 6x6 folder with a bad bellows, or fungus'd out lens. Rip the lens, bellows and door/struts off, and mount a thin-wall PVC pipe with . . . the cheapest 300mm large format lens I can find? I think I might even have a 12" Commercial Ektar in my deep storage, though it might need a shutter CLA. It's also not very small or light.

Using a Graflock 22/23 back, and doing something similar. Though 6x9 is not my ideal format, they seem to be cheaper, and more readily available.

Just trying to bounce ideas off people before I start sketching things, or acquiring any new gear (I have far too much already, so a lot of this might be in my boxes somewhere anyway). I'd love a better quality lens, but all the MF lenses I can think of weigh as much as, or more than, the rest of the intended camera.

Have you thought about using a catadioptric scope of some type?
Coverage might be a problem for 6x6.
I don’t know about bang for buck. A cartridge of 135 Provia gives you super fine grain.
You might want to kill a darling or two and go 135.

 

[Terence]

Are you familiar with Andreas Feininger's long-focus lens work and his unique camera. Might give you some ideas:



View attachment 341484

I'm not, unless he's the guy who did shots of Midtown Manhattan from Weehawken in the 1940s and '50s.

But I started building something like that 12 years ago for a 1200mm brass cannon/lens I got about 20 years ago. Unfortunately kids got in the way. But that is very similar to the idea, which is why I keep coming back to it.

 

[ic-racer]

Feininger describes his construction of the camera pictured in post #6 as two boxes that slide in side each other for focusing. They are lined with velvet to make them light tight. He seems most proud of the 'tripod' legs used for stabilization; the key to getting sharp images with a long focus camera. Similar to what the OP has described, he attached the back end of a camera to the box in order to hold the film.

Sunday on Coney Island, July 1949--40" lens

 

[Terence]

I have plenty of expire

Have you thought about using a catadioptric scope of some type?
Coverage might be a problem for 6x6.
I don’t know about bang for buck. A cartridge of 135 Provia gives you super fine grain.
You might want to kill a darling or two and go 135.

I have plenty of Velvia, Provia, etc in 120. I took a years long hiatus from film but have about 20 crates of camera equipment, and another 5 of film from before I had to stop. Everything from 35mm to 8x20. Somewhere I even still have about 3000' of 9.5" aerial film.

 

[reddesert]

Are you going to use a tripod? Long focal length on distant subject, and relatively slow working aperture (to keep the lens small, to allow a bit of depth of field) suggest tripod. Once you go to a tripod, then does it makes sense to homebrew the camera for maximum lightness? When attempting to take pictures of faraway things, rigidity is very important. So it may not wind up much smaller / lighter than your Hasselblad + lens.

If you downscale the focal length a little to 250mm, then it may become easier because there are tessar-type LF lenses of 250mm or so that fit in a Copal #1 shutter or similar size (various 250mm lenses, 10" commercial Ektar, etc).

 

[Terence]

Feininger describes his construction of the camera pictured in post #6 as two boxes that slide in side each other for focusing. They are lined with velvet to make them light tight. He seems most proud of the 'tripod' legs used for stabilization; the key to getting sharp images with a long focus camera. Similar to what the OP has described, he attached the back end of a camera to the box in order to hold the film.

Sunday on Coney Island, July 1949--40" lens

I think that is the same guy that gave me the original idea. I had a plywood sliding box camera with internal corrugation and flocking, and a 4x5 back. I made it to use two tripods, front and back. The lens is marked E. Liesegang Elberfeld, and is about 8" in diameter and probably 14" long.

 

[Terence]

Are you going to use a tripod? Long focal length on distant subject, and relatively slow working aperture (to keep the lens small, to allow a bit of depth of field) suggest tripod. Once you go to a tripod, then does it makes sense to homebrew the camera for maximum lightness? When attempting to take pictures of faraway things, rigidity is very important. So it may not wind up much smaller / lighter than your Hasselblad + lens.

If you downscale the focal length a little to 250mm, then it may become easier because there are tessar-type LF lenses of 250mm or so that fit in a Copal #1 shutter or similar size (various 250mm lenses, 10" commercial Ektar, etc).

I have a C-clamp with a tripod screw. I've used it for other MF, and even 4x5 before. Plenty of fences, sogn posts, etc around. Or I can rest it on various objects.

 

[Terence]

Hasselblad 250mm C lens
Hasselblad 500mm C lens
C lenses are much less expensive than the CF and later lenses plus each could be used with a 2X extender.

I haven't looked in a long time, but the 500mm always seemed super expensive

 

[Sirius Glass]

I haven't looked in a long time, but the 500mm always seemed super expensive

I got the 500mm C lens EX+ from KEH for a price that was not only so low that I could not pass it up [I was not looking for one] that I could not say no, but also so low that I will not post it.

 

[AnselMortensen]

There are (2) 500mm Hassy lenses on my local Craigslist right now for less than $500 ea.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I got the 500mm C lens EX+ from KEH for a price that was not only so low that I could not pass it up [I was not looking for one] that I could not say no, but also so low that I will not post it.

There are (2) 500mm Hassy lenses on my local Craigslist right now for less than $500 ea.

See my PM.

 

[Helge]

Feininger describes his construction of the camera pictured in post #6 as two boxes that slide in side each other for focusing. They are lined with velvet to make them light tight. He seems most proud of the 'tripod' legs used for stabilization; the key to getting sharp images with a long focus camera. Similar to what the OP has described, he attached the back end of a camera to the box in order to hold the film.

Sunday on Coney Island, July 1949--40" lens

These are some, probably earlier, iterations of the same idea:

The main takeaway should be the “tripod”, originally a tripod with front legs.
You are not going to be shooting that long a lens without substantial support.
Especially not stopped down to a big DoF on Provia.

Good photography is hard, hard work. Physically and psychologically.
Especially hard because you can wander out a wrong vector for a long time without realizing it.
It’s not something you happen upon or do on your way to somewhere.

I’ve almost stopped bringing gear on social walks, because it’s always a pest for my companion and it almost never results in great shots. Only mediocrity.

Life’s to sort to wallow in and settle for mediocre.
Feininger as an example kept developing dramatically over his life.

Watch the wonderful interview from the fantastic BBC series Master Photographers. And read the last interview he gave on Archive.

That’s what any photographer should aspire to in their own way.

 

[Terence]

I got the 500mm C lens EX+ from KEH for a price that was not only so low that I could not pass it up [I was not looking for one] that I could not say no, but also so low that I will not post it.

Hah. I had to pause most of my film photography almoat 10 years ago when I had a kid with major health problems. Coming back and seeing current Hassie prices is shocking.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Hah. I had to pause most of my film photography almost 10 years ago when I had a kid with major health problems. Coming back and seeing current Hassie prices is shocking.

Glad your child is well. The Hasselblad will be the last camera you will by. You will find yourself turning your nose up at anything else.

 

[Terence]

These are some, probably earlier, iterations of the same idea:

View attachment 341506 View attachment 341507

The main takeaway should be the “tripod”, originally a tripod with front legs.
You are not going to be shooting that long a lens without substantial support.
Especially not stopped down to a big DoF on Provia.

Good photography is hard, hard work. Physically and psychologically.
Especially hard because you can wander out a wrong vector for a long time without realizing it.
It’s not something you happen upon or do on your way to somewhere.

I’ve almost stopped bringing gear on social walks, because it’s always a pest for my companion and it almost never results in great shots. Only mediocrity.

Life’s to sort to wallow in and settle for mediocre.
Feininger as an example kept developing dramatically over his life.

Watch the wonderful interview from the fantastic BBC series Master Photographers. And read the last interview he gave on Archive.

That’s what any photographer should aspire to in their own way.

Despite the hiatus in film photography, I've been doing photography for 30+ years, from 35mm to 8x20. Some of my best shots are with equipment that some people would have thrown away. The best camera is the one you have with you when you find a shot. Well planned photos are great, but the great lighting doesn't always happen on your day off. That's why I'm looking to make something for the shots I keep missing. I usually have a Rolllecord V in my work bag, but it just doesn't reach out far enough. I have a TeleRollei, but it's like carrying a brick, and would never carry it all day going from jobsite to jobsite, and is still short of the focal length I want.