Those "Self-Publish" Book Sites?

[davetravis]

Hi all,
I'm thinking about getting some small runs of a coffee table book made of my portfolios to sell at the art shows. Nothing big and fancy like David Muench would sell, but I still need something that looks well done, and the images to be pretty close to the originals. Has anyone done this with one of the on-line companies like LuLu? Were you happy with the results?
Thanks.

 

[argus]

Hi Dave,

I coded a Belgian website for self-publishing. The control you will have over the images in the books we print (digitally!!!!!) is zero because it is a low budget offer and we really don't want to interfere manually in the process. I don't know what others can do for you.

The best thing you can do is find out what ppd's the printers use.
A secondary choice is to find a local printshop with good equipment that you can talk to and discuss the quality of the output. If you are friendly and patient they maybe want to setup some custom settings for your project.

How many books do you want to have printed? Up from 600 copies it is financially more interesting to have them printed conventionally (offset) in stead of digitally.

Greetings,
G

 

[firecracker]

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

 

[Rob Skeoch]

It sounds like a good idea. Myself I'm going to start with a few Lulu calenders and see how they look. Not as much time/money involved if it doesn't look great.
Now I just have to shoot 11 more good images so I have something to put in the calender.
Rob Skeoch
www.bigcameraworkshops.com

 

[boyooso]

I really know nothing about it, but a client of mine is doing an 'ibook' from the apple website.

I just took a look at the apple webiste (homepage) and didn't see anything obvious, but as I understand it they make small run, good quality books... you'll have to investigate, sorry.

Corey

 

[leeturner]

I really know nothing about it, but a client of mine is doing an 'ibook' from the apple website.

I just took a look at the apple webiste (homepage) and didn't see anything obvious, but as I understand it they make small run, good quality books... you'll have to investigate, sorry.

Corey

I may be wrong but I think that the Apple book is printed by MyPublisher.com under a licencing agreement.
Take a look at http://www.mypublisher.com/pressroom_wsj2.php
where there's a basic review of the different publishers.

 

[f/stopblues]

The guys over at rangefinderforum.com have published two group books through Lulu now. I own the first one and must say that it's of very acceptable quality. The images seem to be reproduced very accurately when compared to their counterparts I've viewed on the online galleries. Everyone was thoroughly impressed.

**However..**

Book 2 seems to be another story. Immediately people noticed a magenta cast to the black and white images (great majority were b&w). Numerous emails and months later, the problem seems only slightly improved. Here's a thread with some of the latest happenings: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21063&highlight=rff+book

Here's a link to Lulu with both books: http://people.lulu.com/users/index.php?fHomepage=120498
Apparently it was strictly a printing problem, so these pdf's look good.

Here's a couple more threads about book 2 problems: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20977&highlight=rff+book
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20985&highlight=rff+book

So, use at your own risk! At least they're capable of a high quality product. Getting that quality is so far 50/50 for the RFF bunch. This only has to do with Lulu though.. I have no idea what the other sites are like. I hope it works out for you! It's a very good idea.

 

[MWGraves]

Hi all,
I'm thinking about getting some small runs of a coffee table book made of my portfolios to sell at the art shows. Nothing big and fancy like David Muench would sell, but I still need something that looks well done, and the images to be pretty close to the originals. Has anyone done this with one of the on-line companies like LuLu? Were you happy with the results?
Thanks.

A company called Blurb (yeah, I know...I hate the name, too) puts out a very high quality product for the money. An 80-page hard bound book complete with dust cover will set you back $35.00 per copy. You do your own layout using a very easy-to use program that they have. The software runs on either MAC or PC platform, so that's not an issue. If you are planning on having several copies made, they even make just one of them for you at standard charge so you can adjust images or text before completing the run.

 

[HerrBremerhaven]

I know with the type of printing that Lulu.com are using you have one nicer option for B/W printing. Just use a single ink, and not a full colour run. That will avoid a colour cast in B/W images. This works on these types of presses because the printing is oil and toner based, not regular offset press inks. I have seen two books done that way, and the images were very nice; not as good as a chemically produced B/W print, but quite nice for a book.

Running B/W images as a single ink run will also cost you less per page. What I wish Lulu.com or some other on-demand publisher would do is offer a larger size, like Tabloid sized paper. Unfortunately, the only larger printing places I have found so far cost quite a bit more per page.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
A G Studio

 

[roteague]

Blurb was mentioned, also take a look at SharedInk (http://www.sharedink.com/default.aspx).

They have several books, for example:
"Linen Hardcover Keepsake Book Our most popular book! Covered in finely woven bookcloth imported from Italy and features color-matched end papers. All pages are printed double-sided in full color on acid-free 100lb premium matte paper. Truly an heirloom!

SIZE: Finished book is 8.25" tall and 11.0" wide.

PRICING: $39.95 for the first 20 pages (10 sheets, double-sided); $1.00 each additional page."

I haven't used either. so I have no opinion which is best.

 

[copake_ham]

The guys over at rangefinderforum.com have published two group books through Lulu now. I own the first one and must say that it's of very acceptable quality. The images seem to be reproduced very accurately when compared to their counterparts I've viewed on the online galleries. Everyone was thoroughly impressed.

**However..**

Book 2 seems to be another story. Immediately people noticed a magenta cast to the black and white images (great majority were b&w). Numerous emails and months later, the problem seems only slightly improved. Here's a thread with some of the latest happenings: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21063&highlight=rff+book

Here's a link to Lulu with both books: http://people.lulu.com/users/index.php?fHomepage=120498
Apparently it was strictly a printing problem, so these pdf's look good.

Here's a couple more threads about book 2 problems: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20977&highlight=rff+book
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20985&highlight=rff+book

So, use at your own risk! At least they're capable of a high quality product. Getting that quality is so far 50/50 for the RFF bunch. This only has to do with Lulu though.. I have no idea what the other sites are like. I hope it works out for you! It's a very good idea.

As a contributor to the RFF-2 book, this was my thought too.

There was some difference of opinion about whether the submitters had indicated how to treat B&W etc. in the instructions. Apparently has something to do with CMYK standards. Stuff far beyond my knowledge of photo printing.

My understanding is that Lulu is so automated that if you do find a "person" he or she is a fairly dim bulb. My copy of the book is the "magenta" one - sad quality - important lesson on "you get what you pay for...."

EDIT: I should note that the color prints were very good so it does seem like there was some poor communication that the run would include both color and B&W prints.

 

[Fintan]

I'm also interested in this thread if anyone has any experiences since the thread started I'd love to hear them.

 

[Bruce Osgood]

I have a copy of Sam Porteras' "After The Water" that is a Lulu print-on-demand publication. It is very good. I have no idea how Lulu works but the end product is something to be proud of.

 

[bjorke]

I also have Sam's Lulu book and two by my friend Juan Buhler. The color printing (as opposed to B&W) seems a bit heavy on the red, but what's not clear is how day-to-day consistency is maintained -- might a newer or older copy look different? I can't say. You might want to write to Juan & ask him directly.

FWiW, Juan has suggested using my tool ChartThrob (or something similar), originally designed for tuning digital negatives, to calibrate the Lulu process.

Opening for Buhler gallery show/book. Juan with the boxing tape.​

 

[tim rudman]

I'm also interested in this thread if anyone has any experiences since the thread started I'd love to hear them.

The Alt Photo site's 1st book is out about now and printed by Lulu. I haven't got my copy yet so can't comment on quality yet. Perhaps others here have their copy?
the link is
http://www.alternativephotography.com/books/art_and_artists_edition1.html

 

[dmr]

My copy of the book is the "magenta" one - sad quality - important lesson on "you get what you pay for...."

I (supposedly) have two photos published in that book, and I'm holding off ordering a copy until I hear that the B&W issue is fixed. I would sure love to show that one off, I was even thinking of putting a copy in our waiting area at work, but if one of my photos is in magenta and white, or black and magenta, I'll hold off.

 

[Bromo33333]

I got a cyanotype book from lulu.com that was great. It was more of a "how to" than an art books. The printing was good - though it is not a fine art press.

 

[Fintan]

Thanks for the replies. I'm just wondering if one needs a high-end design package like quark or indesign to publish with lulu.com or do they provide their own software?

 

[HerrBremerhaven]

Most on-demand publishers actually discourage using dedicated design software. Many have their own software they want you to use, or encourage sending in specific non-professional dedicated text and images. Be aware that Lulu.com is far from the only choice, and might not necessarily be the best choice. Investigate with care, try to get some samples, visit the company websites, and compare before taking this publishing route. While the up-front cost can be low, the results might not be quite what you expected.

If you are only doing B/W images, I encourage doing a single ink (black) only run, rather than a full colour output. The type of direct press being used is very different than a commercial four colour run. The ink is toner based, then usually heatset with oil as part of the process. A single colour black only run can look better by avoiding colour casts, and with a toner and oil based system provides a better result than a commercial press would do with only black (K) ink. Based upon samples I have seen so far, this would be a best choice (90%) at the majority of these types of on-demand presses.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
Dead Link Removed

 

[Fintan]

Be aware that Lulu.com is far from the only choice, and might not necessarily be the best choice.

Any recomendations in this respect would be appreciated.

If you are only doing B/W images, I encourage doing a single ink (black) only run, rather than a full colour output.

The book will be all lith prints and dark brown in colour. How should I approach this?

 

[Michael W]

At a photo expo in Sydney I saw examples of books printed by Asuka books. They are based in Japan but have an agency in Sydney. I was very impressed by the quality, which is offset printing on nice paper. Looked like any decent book you would pick up in a bookshop. Turn around time was about 4 weeks & cost was approx $40 per book, although there were various options to do with number of pages, hard or soft cover etc. You can order as few as one copy or as many as you want I suppose. Looked like it was being aimed at wedding photographers but I can see there are art applications. I suppose they would have agencies in other countries, try a search if interested.

 

[HerrBremerhaven]

On-Demand Printing Considerations

Any recomendations in this respect would be appreciated.



The book will be all lith prints and dark brown in colour. How should I approach this?

Hello Fintan,

Just to clarify a bit, I own both Adobe InDesign and QuarkXPress, and searched based upon which companies allowed me the greatest control over printing. I have also recently attended seminars from some manufacturers of these new on-demand presses, and decided I liked the Xerox iGen outputs more than other machines. However, all these presses vary on an hour by hour and day by day basis; don't expect exact matches of the books you have printed and you should be happy. Quality control is very important and will affect consistancy.

Lulu.com is the best known, though in reality there are many companies just like them. After looking at numerous samples it is my opinion that the best possibilities of consistant good quality can be found through Viovio. However, keep in mind that none of these companies will produce a book comparible to what you can get off a good offset press. The only atvantage to using an on-demand printer is reducing costs for publishing. If you have strong images, some of these companies should be good enough to use their services to print portfolios or sample books you can send out.

If you were printing your book by offset press, then selecting two Pantone inks would be the best way to match your dark brown photos. With on-demand presses, you only have CMYK. My suggestion to you is to get a book that will show you samples of toned black printing off these presses, then use the percentage mix of CMYK indicated in your best match. One such small sample guide book is The Art & Science of Digital Printing from Parsons School of Design and Xerox. There are similar books and guides, though the thing you want is printed swatches in the book, shown with percentages of ink; this is how you figure out that brown tone. Anyway, I don't want to get too technical, and this is sort of away from usual APUG topics, so feel free to contact me off forum for any further questions.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
Dead Link Removed

 

[Fintan]

Thanks for all that Gordon.

Offset printing would be too expensive for the short run I'm doing so I'm glad to have your views on the Xerox iGen. Naturally you get what you pay for and the quality will not be as high but for my first book, I'll be happy to go this route.

I'll check into viovio and their options. I do have a copy of InDesign, it was bundled with Illustrator and Photoshop when I was buying them. So I'll have a go at setting up a template or look on the net for some.

Thanks Goldie, I tried to register with Asuka to find out more but it said I'd registered before. Really strange!

 

[HerrBremerhaven]

Hello Fintan,

Glad to be of help. I just thought of something else that might help you a bit. If you have trouble finding that book I mentioned, you have a work-around that can still help you. Create a set of swatches in CMYK using Illustrator, and place them on one or two pages of your first sample book run. Then pick the combination that best matches what you want, and adjust your images to match the combination. You can either do that as a CMYK mix in PhotoShop, or run a Duotone and convert to CMYK later. Then at the end delete your swatch page before having your final book printed.

Just a note on Asuka. I agree that the quality is quite good. This is one of the top rated wedding album companies. The images are closer to C-prints than offset sheetfed. Unfortunately the cost per book can be quite high, though if you only want one or two it might be worth having produced. Place close attention to their specifications to get the best results.

Ciao!

Gordon Moat
Dead Link Removed

 

[blaze-on]

Thanks for the replies. I'm just wondering if one needs a high-end design package like quark or indesign to publish with lulu.com or do they provide their own software?

I am awaiting (ANY DAY NOW) my lulu book of wedding proofs for client. I used PSCS to do contact sheets, export as pdf's and gathered as one file. Cover design done in PSCS as well and uploaded separately. I hope it looks good. Since it was almost a gigabyte in file size it took six hours to upload via their ftp site.

For my personal portfolio/marketing/sample book I'll be using Shared ink as they allow In design or any program for layout, have supposedly better color and print quality. We'll see.

I tried Blurb's software (for Mac) and it didn't work.

I also signed up with Asuka (thought they had a branch in the northwest here?) and eventually will take a sample book and have copies made by several companies to see who does it best.

The swatch idea is good, but keep in mind digital presses are very finicky and although they can be adjusted (C,M,Y,K) I wouldn't be too sure they will calibrate for every run.