This is the reason why I rather buy film online.

foc · Jul 18, 2021

PerTulip said:
They are not applying the same huge markups (+40%!)

There is a difference between markup and margins and how they relate to retail price and profit.
Here is a quick example and see how Vat/taxes affect the price. ( In EU retail prices must be shown including Vat. )

Markup of 40%.

Cost	€3.00
Mark Up	40%
Retail ex Vat	€4.20
Retail inc Vat@21%	€5.08
Profit	€1.20

Margin of 40%

Cost	€3.00
Margin	40%
Retail ex Vat	€5.00
Retail inc Vat 21%	€6.05
Profit	€2.00

So you can see that 40% of a markup doesn't make a lot of money. Again as has been said in this thread and others, there is no huge profit markup or margin on film sales.

PerTulip · Jul 18, 2021

foc said:
There is a difference between markup and margins and how they relate to retail price and profit........

Which doesn't matter. €14 is overpriced, and, as stated, my local brick&mortar shop charges €12. We even have a drugstore chain that stocks film (just some) and their prices match online retail prices. I won't buy there, I "support" my local store and pay a little more, but I won't pay absurd prices.

As for "doesn't make a lot of money": my last order was 50 rolls of film (mixed 135, 120, different speeds). Paying +40% adds up for me as a customer and I don't care if it's markup, margin, profit, tax, etc.

MattKing · Jul 18, 2021

There is a real likelihood that the store charging €14 is paying more for the film than the store charging €12.
Minimum order quantities and shipping costs impact small volume retailers disproportionately - particularly if they are unable to order from the distributors that offer the lowest prices.
A store making €1.20 on a roll of film is unlikely to be able to cover their overhead unless their volumes are very high.
On the subject of Value Added Tax, the input tax credits built into most such systems tend to have a large positive effect on the competitiveness of a retailer's prices - much better than more traditional taxes.

destroya · Jul 18, 2021

I really miss K&S in palo alto, but I dont. would go in every 2 weeks and visit fred in the used department and usually walk out with something i didnt need but wanted. pentax 67ii, hasselblad pcp-80, nikon fm3a, new in the box enlarger for almost free.... you get the point. would always pick up a roll or 2 of film when i was there even though it was more expensive than online. but they were getting killed by the digi crowd who would go in, talk to their sales pros, most if not all were really pro photographers, and then go home and buy their gear online to save sales tax.

samys in SF is great because they have their own parking lot with free parking. for a lon time they had prices the same or cheaper than B&H (now they are cheaper on most films) and would give me a sales tax discount if I bought over $150 in film, so in a sense same as buying online. haven't been back since the covid mess as the store was closed.

glass key is nice. great prices on film. last time i was there bought 2 100 sheet ilford 4x5 films for $20 less per pack than B&H. havent been back since they re-opened, so to speak, the store. durring covid it was 1 person in the store and limited to the front door while they picked what you wanted. had a great talk about chemistry and they seem to be able to order anything I need. said i needed more potassium dichromate for my B&W slides and said it would take 2 weeks. nice to have a place that can handle the odd things. would go back, but as mentioned, it is a chore finding parking as they were only open m-f 2-4. but I go and make a day of walking the city. maybe park in daly city and take BART in. good exercise walking the streets of SF.

i try as much as possible to support in person retail stores. but now that things are opening up a little more and stores are re-opening, prices for a lot of things, services and so on have jumped in price for obvious reason. I do what I can, hoping one person can make a little difference.

Pieter12 · Jul 18, 2021

Back in the 80's before digital, before internet sales, I did newspaper ads, moonlighting for a couple of local camera stores. The profit margins were very slim, some items sold at cost (loss leaders) in order to get a customer in to the store to buy accessories, film, etc. Stores made money from manufacturer/distributor promotions, discounts on quantity purchases over the sales quarter, and professional sales which were pretty much always list price, never discounted. I always cringe when I hear someone complaining about paying what I would consider a fair price for something. These items would not be available if profit was not being made in the process. Capitalism is not an altruistic system. (Upper) Management is not giving anything up to deliver low prices: it comes from the workers, materials and quality of workmanship. The demand for low prices just pushes wages down and worsens working conditions.

Luckless · Jul 20, 2021

softfascination said:
It's worth mentioning that B&H does offer free shipping to Canada for orders over $100. But then there's duties...

Another option since you're in Canada is downtowncamera.com. They have this $25/yr film club where you save %10 on general film and darkroom chems and you save %25 on all Kodak products. They also have free shipping over $125. Eleven rolls of Portra 160 in 35mm comes out to $133 before taxes.

They're on 'the list' of places to look for things my local shops don't have in stock, but still find it hard to justify ordering from nearly the far side of the country and see how long stuff gets stuck in shipping vs popping into Camera Traders or Kerrisdale a few km from here and walking home with things the same day.

unwantedfocus · Oct 30, 2021

Went to another store yesterday because I was in need of a roll of hp5+ 35mm he charged me 11,90 euro for one roll. That was defiantly the last time I bought film in a shop, buying bulk in the future and start hoarding!

narsuitus · Oct 30, 2021

Routinely, I buy photographic chemicals and 35mm, 120, and 4x5 inch film on-line from FreeStylePhoto.biz

Occasionally, I buy locally from Central Camera in downtown Chicago.

RalphLambrecht · Oct 30, 2021

BrianShaw said:
Yes... the price of convenience and the cost of maintaining a brick-and-mortar store. You should thank them for being there for you in your time of need.

agreed!

Huss · Oct 30, 2021

unwantedfocus said:
Went to another store yesterday because I was in need of a roll of hp5+ 35mm he charged me 11,90 euro for one roll. That was defiantly the last time I bought film in a shop, buying bulk in the future and start hoarding!

Well, that is all on you.
You needed one roll of film. They had it. You could have walked away.

I would happily pay 12 euros if I needed a roll right there and then. Better than having none.

But I do plan ahead and have an ample supply. Just so I don't start a thread complaining about my lack of preparedness..

Peace and love.

VinceInMT · Oct 30, 2021

I live the largest city in my state and there is nowhere here that sells film. I am not aware of anywhere in the state that does. That said, Photographers Formulary is here if one wants to DIY but it's about 400 miles from me.

faberryman · Oct 30, 2021

BrianShaw said:
Yes... the price of convenience and the cost of maintaining a brick-and-mortar store. You should thank them for being there for you in your time of need.

I stopped buying locally because they frequently didn't have the stuff I needed when I needed it.

flavio81 · Oct 30, 2021

PerTulip said:
Which doesn't matter. €14 is overpriced, and, as stated, my local brick&mortar shop charges €12. We even have a drugstore chain that stocks film (just some) and their prices match online retail prices. I won't buy there, I "support" my local store and pay a little more, but I won't pay absurd prices.

As for "doesn't make a lot of money": my last order was 50 rolls of film (mixed 135, 120, different speeds). Paying +40% adds up for me as a customer and I don't care if it's markup, margin, profit, tax, etc.

This.

At my local brick&mortar pro store, a roll of 120 Ektar costs $20. TWENTY US DOLLARS.

Vote with your wallet.

Duceman · Oct 30, 2021

I grew up in a very rural area. Closest "film store" was more than an hour away. As such, I, along with my mother (as did her mother), did everything via mail order. And I'm still doing it today, even though I live in a large population metro area (where there are only 1 or 2 film stores anyway).

What is old is new again.

You just have to plan ahead and make sure you've got film stock on hand.

Huss · Oct 30, 2021

flavio81 said:
This.

At my local brick&mortar pro store, a roll of 120 Ektar costs $20. TWENTY US DOLLARS.

Vote with your wallet.

So worth it if you don't have any but need a roll right away.

Down Under · Oct 30, 2021

The owner of my retail photo store in Melbourne drives a Maserati. His partner has a new Peugeot. Their grown-up kids also have company cars. The parents own a million dollar home and the two sprogs were given apartments, all paid for by the family trust.

By comparison and by contrast, we live more modestly and affordably in a pleasant country house and we drive a 30 year old Audi.

Yes, I own a Leica, a 1954 iif I obviously bought used. Also four Rollei TLRs, ditto on their purchase. The only new camera I've bought in the past decade or longer was a Nikon D800 demo I got a good price on in 2019, and intend to go on using until I'm through with photography. The day I bought my Nikon, a man in front of me was coughing up $20,000+ for a Hasselblad kit for his son, an art photography student. I'm sure the kid is enjoying daddy's largesse, but that twenty Gs would buy me a lot of other things I want more. I wonder if the profit on that sale went on the new Maserati the shop owner got that same year.

I for one don't feel the need to contribute to their economic well-being. Online buying here in Australia is a joke, with Ebay sellers trying to flog off expired film at higher prices than I can buy it new. I buy my films as and when I find them discounted, at store sales and privately. Chemistry and paper when I can get these at less than the usual several hundred percent markups the photo industry in Australia adds to everything it sells.

Bricks and mortar, hell. It's more about big profits, million dollar waterside houses and new Maseratis.

So I should feel feel "guilty" about this?? Hah!! Anyone saying yes is full of what makes gardens grow greener...

MattKing · Oct 30, 2021

ozmoose said:
The owner of my retail photo store in Melbourne drives a Maserati. His partner has a new Peugeot. Their grown-up kids also have company cars. The parents own a million dollar home and the two sprogs were given apartments, all paid for by the family trust.

Which probably means the store is a labour of love, rather than a profitable going concern!

Huss · Oct 31, 2021

ozmoose said:
The owner of my retail photo store in Melbourne drives a Maserati. His partner has a new Peugeot. Their grown-up kids also have company cars. The parents own a million dollar home and the two sprogs were given apartments, all paid for by the family trust.

By comparison and by contrast, we live more modestly and affordably in a pleasant country house and we drive a 30 year old Audi.

Yes, I own a Leica, a 1954 iif I obviously bought used. Also four Rollei TLRs, ditto on their purchase. The only new camera I've bought in the past decade or longer was a Nikon D800 demo I got a good price on in 2019, and intend to go on using until I'm through with photography. The day I bought my Nikon, a man in front of me was coughing up $20,000+ for a Hasselblad kit for his son, an art photography student. I'm sure the kid is enjoying daddy's largesse, but that twenty Gs would buy me a lot of other things I want more. I wonder if the profit on that sale went on the new Maserati the shop owner got that same year.

I for one don't feel the need to contribute to their economic well-being. Online buying here in Australia is a joke, with Ebay sellers trying to flog off expired film at higher prices than I can buy it new. I buy my films as and when I find them discounted, at store sales and privately. Chemistry and paper when I can get these at less than the usual several hundred percent markups the photo industry in Australia adds to everything it sells.

Bricks and mortar, hell. It's more about big profits, million dollar waterside houses and new Maseratis.

So I should feel feel "guilty" about this?? Hah!! Anyone saying yes is full of what makes gardens grow greener...

lol you think he got rich selling Ektar or whatever for $15 a roll?

Sheesh.

Look, everyone is free to get their film from wherever. But it is on you if you run out, need a roll, go to a shop, then complain that it is too expensive. Plan ahead or get another hobby.

faberryman · Oct 31, 2021

Huss said:
Look, everyone is free to get their film from wherever. But it is on you if you run out, need a roll, go to a shop, then complain that it is too expensive. Plan ahead or get another hobby.

Right. Nothing like scarcity and high prices to encourage better planning.

Sirius Glass · Oct 31, 2021

Maybe it is time to stop machine gunning the camera and actually learn to take a photograph. Then you will be able to afford film.

Andrew O'Neill · Oct 31, 2021

Recently, I've been buying film online from Jacques over at Argentix. His prices are very good for Rollei IR, compared to stores near me, even when shipping is factored in. Just waiting for him to some more stock in...

removedacct1 · Oct 31, 2021

Huss said:
Look, everyone is free to get their film from wherever. But it is on you if you run out, need a roll, go to a shop, then complain that it is too expensive. Plan ahead or get another hobby.

Pretty much, yeah. You're moaning about paying more than you wanted to for ONE roll of film when you are desperate to have it. Be grateful someone was there to provide it, even if you did pay a couple bucks more than you would have elsewhere. Paying a bit extra for convenience has been the way of things forever.

alan c. davis · Nov 1, 2021

ozmoose said:
The owner of my retail photo store in Melbourne drives a Maserati. His partner has a new Peugeot. Their grown-up kids also have company cars. The parents own a million dollar home and the two sprogs were given apartments, all paid for by the family trust.

By comparison and by contrast, we live more modestly and affordably in a pleasant country house and we drive a 30 year old Audi.

Yes, I own a Leica, a 1954 iif I obviously bought used. Also four Rollei TLRs, ditto on their purchase. The only new camera I've bought in the past decade or longer was a Nikon D800 demo I got a good price on in 2019, and intend to go on using until I'm through with photography. The day I bought my Nikon, a man in front of me was coughing up $20,000+ for a Hasselblad kit for his son, an art photography student. I'm sure the kid is enjoying daddy's largesse, but that twenty Gs would buy me a lot of other things I want more. I wonder if the profit on that sale went on the new Maserati the shop owner got that same year.

I for one don't feel the need to contribute to their economic well-being. Online buying here in Australia is a joke, with Ebay sellers trying to flog off expired film at higher prices than I can buy it new. I buy my films as and when I find them discounted, at store sales and privately. Chemistry and paper when I can get these at less than the usual several hundred percent markups the photo industry in Australia adds to everything it sells.

Bricks and mortar, hell. It's more about big profits, million dollar waterside houses and new Maseratis.

So I should feel feel "guilty" about this?? Hah!! Anyone saying yes is full of what makes gardens grow greener...

What retail outlet is this I'm curious to know?

Chess · Nov 1, 2021

alan c. davis said:
What retail outlet is this I'm curious to know?

I'm in Melbourne and would like to know as well. I'm looking for the best places to purchase film and have C41 developed, scanned with possibly 6x4 prints at times. From my early looking around, Walkens was going to be my first go to.

markjwyatt · Nov 1, 2021

I buy online because they have selection, plus there are no stores within easy or convenient driving distance. When I am in an area that has a photo shop selling film, or come across one travelling, I usually buy supplemental rolls based on how high they have marked it up and based on need and just a desire to help in little ways to keep retail photo shops going.

This is the reason why I rather buy film online.

foc

PerTulip

MattKing

Moderator

destroya

Pieter12

Luckless

unwantedfocus

narsuitus

RalphLambrecht

Huss

VinceInMT

faberryman

flavio81

Duceman

Huss

Down Under

MattKing

Moderator

Huss

faberryman

Sirius Glass

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator

removedacct1

alan c. davis

Chess

markjwyatt

This is the reason why I rather buy film online.

Moderator

Moderator

Moderator

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency