This could be why Nikon discontinued the F6...

[fdonadio]

Seems Nikon stopped making cameras in Japan altogether and is focusing on cheaper manufacturing in Thailand:

https://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/nikon-is-ending-70-years-of-camera-production-in-japan/

I know “Mirrorless Rumors” doesn’t seem to be a trusted source, but they do link to an article at Asahi:

https://dot.asahi.com/dot/2020121500061.html

I guess they didn’t have any incentives on moving the F6 assembly line.

 

[ic-racer]

If this is profitable for them, maybe they could make another film camera for the 'recovering film market.'. A new film camera that falls anywhere between the FM-10 and F6 would be desirable.

Nikon's problem now is likely related to the below graph which is even 2 years old . They need to do something to stay afloat.

 

[Pieter12]

If Nikon needs a new camera to keep afloat, it probably won't be a film camera. And certainly not a pro 35mm film camera. The pros use digital.

 

[Peter Schrager]

A film camera like the ones mentioned above would sell just fine. Does nikon have the balls to pull it off as obviously the digital world id beating them up

 

[Huss]

They could have moved the F6 production to Thailand, and called it the F6T..

 

[Pieter12]

A film camera like the ones mentioned above would sell just fine. Does nikon have the balls to pull it off as obviously the digital world id beating them up

And how many will you be buying? And at what price? A top-line pro camera body usually runs at least $7 grand.

 

[mshchem]

Professionals don't buy film cameras. Professionals don't worry about having the latest digital cameras. Professionals aren't buying much of anything now due to the pandemic. The market that all the remaining camera companies are chasing is the wealthy Advanced amateur and wealthy semi-pros.

I saw a figure that what used to be 80:20 pro:amateur for Nikon Pro DSLR cameras has flipped this year to 20:80.

I traded in my purchased used D5 for a D6. Pros that work in Journalism either use the company equipment, or if they freelance they are constantly chasing after a shrinking market for their images. People used to ask me why I didn't become a pro photographer, (first thing I'm not that good) I used to say I wanted to not make a pleasure, work. In reality I wouldn't be able to make a living.

 

[wyofilm]

The market that all the remaining camera companies are chasing is the wealthy Advanced amateur and wealthy semi-pros.

Yes! All the more reason for Nikon to start making film cameras again (in Japan!).

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Seems Nikon stopped making cameras in Japan altogether and is focusing on cheaper manufacturing in Thailand:

https://www.mirrorlessrumors.com/nikon-is-ending-70-years-of-camera-production-in-japan/

I know “Mirrorless Rumors” doesn’t seem to be a trusted source, but they do link to an article at Asahi:

https://dot.asahi.com/dot/2020121500061.html

I guess they didn’t have any incentives on moving the F6 assembly line.

They could have moved the F6 production to Thailand, and called it the F6T..

Nikon manufactured the F6, in small batches, on a separate line in Sendai. It required a lot more human labor than their newer, digital cameras. Reportedly, that labor was provided by a tiny number of very experienced workers.

I speculate that, even if Nikon considered continuing F6 production in Thailand, the workers who built it had no interest in moving from Japan, and training new Thai workers to perform the intricate tasks required would have been too expensive for the "legacy film" good will benefit that might accrue.

This situation is likely similar to Nikon's decision about ending production of large format lenses. Those were also assembled by some very experienced employees. When they retired, the company concluded that training replacement workers in the face of a shrinking market for the products was not viable.

 

[Nitroplait]

Nikon didn't produce F6's; they assembled them from parts - and they were most likely running out (given that they also need to keep parts in order to service the newly sold F6 cameras in the foreseeable future).
The tooling for making new F6's don't exist anymore and haven't for years.
The move to Thailand is an economic move to regain profitability and a positive move from that perspective.
The Japanese Sendai factory will continue as an R & D facility which is good news and leaves a gate open for Japanese production if the market demands it.

 

[ic-racer]

Recovering film market?

Have you tried to buy B&W film lately. Literally any format is available from the convenience of one's computer. Same with chemistry. So many choices beginners are confused. . Maybe Canada is different but in the USA, this is the 'golden age' of B&W photography.

 

[Pieter12]

Have you tried to buy B&W film lately. Literally any format is available from the convenience of one's computer. Same with chemistry. So many choices beginners are confused. . Maybe Canada is different but in the USA, this is the 'golden age' of B&W photography.

Still, there isn't much of a market for a pro film camera, especially 35mm. When I worked as an advertising art director, the last time a photographer insisted on using film for an assignment was around 2005--and he didn't get the job. The market wants the immediate results of digital and the quality is there for publication. Film is pretty much the domain of art photographers and amateurs, not a big enough market to induce a large manufacturer to make the investment in a new, high-level camera. Pro-line cameras are often the "convertible in the showroom window" for those manufacturers, bringing in the mid and lower-end buyers.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...this is the 'golden age' of B&W photography.

Nah, that ended when cadmium was regulated out of papers.

 

[ic-racer]

Canada is no different but this ain't no golden age of film. Yes, for the time being we still have first rate Kodak, Ilford and Fuji films available, but there is no way this market can be called healthy. As for any general interest in film beyond the relatively few pros and serious amateurs/hobbyists left, if there has indeed been an upward bump, it's just a fad. I love film (well, good film at least), so I would really like for you to be correct but I think it is wishful thinking.

Not sure what film products you can't obtain? What more are you asking for that you can't obtain to think the B&W film market is somehow 'unhealthy?'
Literally there is an unlimited supply of B&W film , paper and chemicals available in the US.

 

[Pieter12]

Not sure what film products you can't obtain? What more are you asking for that you can't obtain to think the B&W film market is somehow 'unhealthy?'
Literally there is an unlimited supply of B&W film , paper and chemicals available in the US.

There have been a number of times over the last few years when I have been unable to buy the Ilford products I use (paper & film) from either Samy's or Freestyle retail or online from either. And with the recent COVID situation in the UK, there could be more shortages.

 

[AgX]

I guess they didn’t have any incentives on moving the F6 assembly line.

I doubt assembly line is the apt designation.

 

[fdonadio]

I doubt assembly line is the apt designation.

Although I consider my English skills very good, sometimes I still can’t find the right words to express what I mean.

So, like Sinatra would say, let me try again: what I meant in my original post is that the F6 was axed (if not because it was about time) because Nikon would stop making cameras in Japan altogether.

Maybe I’m wrong. As noted by @Sal Santamaura, the F6 was made in a different unit than the digital cameras. Or maybe I am right and Nikon decided to cease manufacturing in all of their plants in Japan — which, in fact, is what the “article” kind of says.

Well... to be honest, it’s not a matter of my being right or wrong. So... whatever!

 

[Huss]

I doubt assembly line is the apt designation.

Yeah, it's Larry in cubicle 8 next to the water dispenser.

 

[mshchem]

Yes! All the more reason for Nikon to start making film cameras again (in Japan!).

I heartily agree. I bought a Fuji X-Pro 3, made in Japan. Workers who earn a good wage and benefits, make good products. Experience!
When I see all the lenses Nikon makes in China, I pass.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

Pro-line cameras are often the "convertible in the showroom window" for those manufacturers, bringing in the mid and lower-end buyers.

I have not even seen low or middle level digital ILC cameras out among tourists recently. It looks like that market has collapsed more quickly than film did in the 2005 to 2010 era. The "photographers" (better not write what I really call them) on DPreview still moon over megapixels and equivalence, but I wonder how many really buy the newest and greatest?

 

[Ai Print]

Well my experience is certainly different...

I bought a Sinar 8x10 conversion kit for my P2 4x5 kit this year. I bought a Hasselblad Flexbody for my Hasselblad system this year. I replaced two of my three Nikon Z bodies with the new ZII bodies this year. And a couple weeks ago I spent $7,000 on a Hasselblad 907X / CFV II 50C back for my Hasselblad system.

As far as the impacts of the pandemic on my work, I do have my main client now taking not one but two years off of paid work due to the impacts so that is gone until 2022. But I have picked up several new clients who are nearly making up for that, one is a hospital chain that pays exceptionally well. I used the new Hasselblad digital back with the Flexbody for a great advertising gig late last week. I used my new Z bodies for one tonight. I used the 8x10 for a series of portraits for a magazine piece that comes out next week. And speaking of magazines, I became the primary staff photographer and photo editor of a quarterly publication on sustainable foods and farming this year.
And finally, I had 5 magazine covers this year, a personal record. None of this counts the prints I sold this year made in my darkroom for all the new wealthy new home owners in our area in Colorado.

By the sounds of what you write, the above is impossible and yet....here I am loving my life as a photographer 33 years in...

Professionals don't buy film cameras. Professionals don't worry about having the latest digital cameras. Professionals aren't buying much of anything now due to the pandemic. The market that all the remaining camera companies are chasing is the wealthy Advanced amateur and wealthy semi-pros.

I saw a figure that what used to be 80:20 pro:amateur for Nikon Pro DSLR cameras has flipped this year to 20:80.

I traded in my purchased used D5 for a D6. Pros that work in Journalism either use the company equipment, or if they freelance they are constantly chasing after a shrinking market for their images. People used to ask me why I didn't become a pro photographer, (first thing I'm not that good) I used to say I wanted to not make a pleasure, work. In reality I wouldn't be able to make a living.

 

[Deleted member 88956]

Canada is no different but this ain't no golden age of film. Yes, for the time being we still have first rate Kodak, Ilford and Fuji films available, but there is no way this market can be called healthy. As for any general interest in film beyond the relatively few pros and serious amateurs/hobbyists left, if there has indeed been an upward bump, it's just a fad. I love film (well, good film at least), so I would really like for you to be correct but I think it is wishful thinking.

... yeah, COVID does not exist, it's a fad.

There is a huge difference between market being sustainable making production of whatever to support such a business, vs. calling it a fad even though sales of a product are indeed healthy and at least steady over several years. There are no money poured into film production for philanthropic reasons.

There won't be a return to OGD of film, available variety and mass showings in every kind of presentations. But it sure looks like if there is anything that might actually kill film production for good, it will be coming from future regulations making it a crime to produce it. Feel free to fill the blank of what that might be.

 

[fdonadio]

Well my experience is certainly different...

Wow... your post got me a little envious, but it also restored my faith.

 

[Paul Howell]

If a film camera would make a return it would bet on Canon, Nikon may not have resources to invest in a new film camera that is compatible with E lens. An updated EOS or 7 using current EF lens mount would be cheaper to bring to market than a Nikon model.

 

[Chan Tran]

If you want to make a camera for a niche market you need to make it in Japan for Nikon and Germany for Leica. Making it outside of your own country a niche market product will lose a lot of its appeal. Don't you see why when Nikon made the Df it's the only camera where you can tell it's made in Japan from the product brochure.