thiocarbamide and contrast

[sly]

I've been in the darkroom, experimenting a bit with toning - trying to split tone with thiocarbamide on lith prints. What I'm mostly noticing is that the thiocarbamide is making the prints much more contrasty. Basically I'm losing all detail in the highlights. It's quite useful for a misjudged print where the highlights are over printed, but mostly I'm unhappy with it. I tried leaving a print in for 10 minutes, but the highlights stayed bright. I'll try throwing one in for a couple of hours.

I didn't notice this on straight prints on Ilford papers, so I'm assuming it is something to do with either the lith process, or the Foma 131 paper. I'll dig out a couple of Maco lith prints and see what happens to them for comparison.


I'd be glad for any words of wisdom from all you lith gurus.

 

[Guillaume Zuili]

First you need to play with the dilution of the bleach. I dilute mine quite a lot. This way you have some control.
I like to print (lith) dark and flat with dense highlights. Bleaching brings me back the highlights and the contrast.
Then Sepia or whatever. And selenium to get the split and stronger black.
Foma 131 is very fast in bleach.

 

[Angelo di Mango]

That's right , Foma 131 reacts very violently to bleaching when lith printed. Therefore, the decision of toning a picture must be made before printing the picture, so you overprint it in order to preserve your highlights..
Guillaume is right too, try diluting your bleach( i go as far as 15/20ml of bleach and top it to 1liter)
I do not think leaving your print in the toner for a couple of hours will bring back the highlights, but I might be wrong...( never tried it)
You could also try this technique with other papers, I have a few boxes of Kentona , and one box of Adox PW14 left and they do not rect as strongly.
Keeep trying, it is a long way to control these toning techniques but it is really worth it.
Good luck
Angelo

 

[Guillaume Zuili]

Leaving print for long doesn't do anything with Thio or sepia. it only goes to bleached areas and that's it.

 

[tim rudman]

Lith prints are very vulnerable to tonal loss with thiocarb toning Sly.
Most prints exhibit some degree of tonal loss seen mainly in the highlights when thiocarb toned. This is less with cooler tone papers and if the thiocarb mix is made up with more additive to give colder sepia colours. It is more with warm tone papers and if the toner is made up to give sepia colours at the yellow end. Lith prints are often super warm tone and ultra fine grained and very susceptible to highlight loss on sepia redevelopment. You really need to print specially for this and anticipate it at the printing stage Sly. Leaving the print in the toner for extended periods won't help I'm afraid.
Tim

 

[sly]

Thank you Tim, Guilluame, and Angelo. I certainly have alot to learn about toning.

I have discovered that the Maco Mulitbrom paper reacts much more slowly to the bleach, and toner, and the colour is quite different in both the thiocarbamide and in selinium.