Thinking of picking up a Bessa R3M

[mhanc]

Looking at KEH it seems generally you can get an EX condition M6 for $1,250 or so. You can get a LN- for about $1,600. My experience with KEH is that anything EX+ or better is perfect - YMMV.

In terms of the Zeiss ZM lenses at KEH or on an auction site, LN new ones in perfect condition can be had for 65% or so of the price new.

My experience with KEH is that none of the equipment I have bought there has needed a CLA.

 

[Richard S. (rich815)]

Looking at KEH it seems generally you can get an EX condition M6 for $1,250 or so. You can get a LN- for about $1,600. My experience with KEH is that anything EX+ or better is perfect - YMMV.

In terms of the Zeiss ZM lenses at KEH or on an auction site, LN new ones in perfect condition can be had for 65% or so of the price new.

My experience with KEH is that none of the equipment I have bought there has needed a CLA.

I was going to share the above too. KEH will be about 10-20% higher than what you might find privately or on eBay but I think the premium is worth it for the return privledge and the warranty plus their reputation of being very conservative in their condition classifications. In my experience of shopping and owning a few Leica bodies the cheaper ones are cheap for a reason and you pay for it in the end, not just in the difference in price but the frustration that comes along with that.

 

[presspass]

There are other issues you haven't mentioned. The Zeiss has a funky shutter speed display in the viewfinder - it's on the right side and hard to see if you wear glasses. Both the ZI and the Bessa have brighter viewfinders than the Leica, unless you're looking at an MP or a newer M7. Still, the M6 is a wonderful camera and being manual, like the 3M Bessa, will work without a battery. The Leicas are also reparable by reputable independent shops - DAG, etc. I'm not sure that's the case with either the Bessa or the ZI. BTW, I have used all three; I like the viewfinders on the R2 Bessa and ZI better, and only the Leicas have had to be repaired - mostly due to being dropped. I shoot the M6s much more often. Go figure.

 

[tron_]

That is very interesting what you said about the viewfinders. How much better do you think the Zeiss and Bessa ones are compared to the Leica? This is the first time I have heard this since everyone seems to rave about the M6s viewfinder.

Also, I wanted to reinforce how important build quality is. I was shooting my Mamiya RZ67 yesterday and ran into some issues. Yeah, they're well built cameras but I think I just have a finicky one haha. Man does it suck to run into problems with a camera in the middle of shooting. I almost raised the camera above my head before smashing it into the ground and then taking the sharp pieces of metal and plastic and pressing them into my eyes.

 

[Andre Noble]

The Voigtlander Bessa R2A is an awesome rangefinder. Their price is slowly creeping upward. Buy one or two now while they are still reasonable.

Be sure to put a bottom on it.

Or better yet, this bottom.

Aids the handling and solid feel considerably. Careful with the winder not to hit rewind pin on base of winder before roll is finished - otherwise film advance problems.

If you do buy, buy from Camera Quest Stephen Gandy. He offers good service, but he will NOT service if you don't buy from him. Camera quest also on Ebay.

 

[Spicy]

If you haven't already bought it, I'd agree with the other people who say "suck it up and get the M6." I started my RF phase with a brand new R2M. I was looking for an R3M due to the 1:1 finder, but couldn't find any at the local shops in Seoul. I went with the R2M, and loved shooting with it. It's a great camera as long as you're a believer in the addage "it's just a box to put film in." Yes, it's true that the lenses are vastly more important, but I also like the feeling of manual cameras. The R2M had a film lever that felt like a broken nutcracker every time I wound it, and while the shutter isn't really all that loud, it is a pretty distinctive metallic *CLICK*. I ended up deciding to sell mine before the body got too ratted up and it lost too much value.

The Bessa's are very capable cameras, and if you never hold a Leica, they will treat you just fine. I would buy one in a heartbeat as a backup if someone offered me one. They're very lightweight and have a wonderful finder.

I got an M4-P after I sold the Bessa, and after a CLA, it's beautifully smooth (mine has a brass top plate and brass gears, as it was one of the really early ones). The two biggest reasons I swapped were for the whisper quiet shutter and the resale value. You can basically lease a Leica for nothing, since their values have gotten as low as they're going to. Buy one, use it for a year and don't mess it up too cosmetically, and you can almost always sell it for the price you paid for it, if not a little more providing you're a savvy buyer.

The M6 is basically an M4-P with a meter, as far as I know.

Easy way to break it down:
Bessa R3M - 1:1 finder, trusty, reliable, capable, but not polished feeling. Strong chance of always thinking "wish I had bought the Leica"
Zeiss Ikon - better build quality/feeling but not fully mechanical. Best finder of the bunch.
M6 - amazing tactile pleasure (which some people don't care about), most expensive initially, but you won't lose any money if you decide to sell. Least likely to sell due to nothing worth upgrading to.

 

[kivis]

I have had my CV Bessa R3M and I have beat the shit out of it. As I use outdoors, often in rugged country. It has been rained, dusted and even bounced and it still works great since 2006. Doesn't fell as rugged as a Leica but I experience otherwise. My only grip is the advance lever. If advanced then the shutter can go off in your bag, if it isn't then you can not take a picture. Love the old Nikon FE's. The advanced lever could be advanced but still would not accidentally take a shot unless you cocked the lever a bit. Very handy. Anyway the R3M works for me.

 

[sportster44]

I have the R3M and the 40mm Nokton, and use it a fair bit for travel. I agree, the Leica feels more solid but the r3m goes about it's business very well and provides me no issues at all. I agree that the Voigtlander prices are creeping up as well and I don't think you would lose a lot of money if you subsequently sold it.

 

[Huss]

I'm going to wait another 4 years before reviving this thread again.

 

[kivis]

Just picked up another one: A Brand new R3M in Chrome. Quite rare especially brand new.

 

[tron_]

Woah I popped into this section for the first time in a long time and was surprised to see this thread on the first page haha.

Well since making this thread 4 years ago, I bought a Zeiss Ikon ZM, sold the Zeiss Ikon ZM, bought a Leica M2, and bought another Zeiss Ikon ZM. Oh and I've handled my friends R2A a decent amount. Enough to give an honest review of each.

1. Zeiss Ikon ZM
Personally the Ikon is my favorite. There's just something about the camera that is absolutely exhilarating. The size, shape, buttons, etc all just make sense and sing to me. The build quality is very nice although I've noticed the paint (mine were both black) is not very durable and likes to chip along the top plate. But other than that the camera is incredible. Plus the 35mm framelines are easier for me to see since I wear glasses. I would rate the focusing patch 8.5/10. Oh and 1/2000 sec max shutter speed is great. And the "snick" sound of the shutter is to die for.

2. Leica M2
We all know the differences between the M2 and M3 so lets not get into that. I bought my M2 from Japan where it had recently been serviced. The build quality is phenomenal and is better than the Ikon in my opinion. The camera just feels like a solid brick, as if it were made of one piece of brass. The leatherette on these cameras do like to chip as mine "shattered" by gently bumping it on a very cold day. The 35mm framelines are hard to see if you wear glasses and if I'm shooting the M2 I tend to wear contacts. The focusing patch is the best of the three and I would rate it a 10/10. Not a fan of the "bouncing" sound AKA the "Leica Kiss" sounds at 1/30 sec and below. Made me think my camera was broken haha.

3. Bessa R2A
This is the camera I have the least amount of experience with but my friend has one and I have used it a little bit. The frameline selector is kind of clunky and the build quality is good but not on par with the Leica. The focusing patch is pretty good (I'd rate it 8/10). From what I hear the build quality on this camera is the lowest of the three and although that is true in my opinion, it is not far behind the Ikon in terms of build quality. The film door seems to be the cheapest part of the camera but you could always add some protection to that via a half case.