Thinking of investing in $5,000 - $10,000 of film. Suggestions?

[georg16nik]

The deniers vs stockpilers on this thread illustrate that in life, people can be separated into two camps:

Those who realize it is their responsibility to take care of themselves and then there are those who expect that someone else is responsible for taking care of them.

This applies to everything, retirement planning, emergencies, you name it.

Well said!

Its good to have a few miles of film and enough paper in the freezer.
Especially when You prefer particular films and papers, no manufacturer would stand behind in the long run.

...Quite apart from the fact that the reality of deep freeze embrittles over the longer term, time, stains and sticks and can in all probability be rendered useless in that state....

Stockpiling is for passionate and well informed folks who know the stuff You dont

 

[BrianShaw]

This applies to everything, retirement planning, emergencies, you name it.

... so does moderation (the third option). We all seem to have our personal definitions of too-much, too-little, and just-enough.

 

[removed account4]

Well said!

Its good to have a few miles of film and enough paper in the freezer.
Especially when You prefer particular films and papers, no manufacturer would stand behind in the long run.



Stockpiling is for passionate and well informed folks who know the stuff You dont

what sort of "stuff" are you talking about ?

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

what sort of "stuff" are you talking about ?

Good question. I'm waiting.

 

[dsmccrac]

The deniers vs stockpilers on this thread illustrate that in life, people can be separated into two camps:

Those who realize it is their responsibility to take care of themselves and then there are those who expect that someone else is responsible for taking care of them.

A bit excessive to say there are 'deniers' in this thread - no one is saying that we are entering an age where film will be cheap and old emulsions will come back to life. If there are two camps it is 1) one should ensure that you have the stock you need and film selection will if anything worsen over time and 2) if we want to keep companies viable, regular and frequent purchases help.

Really I don't think these points are mutually exclusive. So I am with Brianshaw (if i understand u correctly) on a third path of stocking up on stuff that I know may be fading away (eg some efke films) and at the same time trying to throw some cash in a regular frequency at some vendors I use.

 

[Andre Noble]

... so does moderation (the third option). We all seem to have our personal definitions of too-much, too-little, and just-enough.

I'd rather have too much, and then sell off the excess at profit to the "too-little" and "just enough" camps years down the line.

BTW, I just find it fantastically interesting that after:

Kodak HIE
Kodak EIR
kodak 125 Plus X
Kodak TXP 320 in rolls
All Kodak E6
Polaroid type 55
Velvia 50 in sheets
All of the beautiful Agfa Color Negative
Fuji slow color negative in rolls and sheets

and I'm sure there are those that i missed -

have all recently been permanently discontinued - all fantastic, iconic emulsions - there are STILL a few people on this thread who are either not passionate enough, or too jealous of those with the pre planning, or too clueless to realize that:

It is entirely possible that ALL color films from all manufacturers could be discontinued tomorrow.

This is what time it is.

Now is the Time.

 

[removed account4]

I'd rather have too much, and then sell off the excess at profit to the "too-little" and "just enough" camps years down the line.

selling off fogged expired de-speeded film at a profit ?
i am trying to figure out how that pans out seeing i for the most part only purchase
expired / outdated film ( and paper ), it is usually for less than paid for when new ...
and just before the film / paper would have hit the landfill.

 

[georg16nik]

what sort of "stuff" are you talking about ?

Good question. I'm waiting.

How to keep film in freeze and not be brittle after say 30 years.
There are simple ways to control humidity etc. etc.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

How to keep film in freeze and not be brittle after say 30 years.
There are simple ways to control humidity.

We are not thinking about the effects of humidity... We are talking about the natural properties of celluloid and the stability of the emulsion.
Show me film that has been in cold storage for 30 years and just been removed. That is the challenge now, not 30 years hence.

 

[removed account4]

How to keep film in freeze and not be brittle after say 30 years.
There are simple ways to control humidity etc. etc.

even i would never buy film from the freezer of someone
who claimed his / her film was frozen in a controlled environment
for 30 +/- years ... maybe if it was just "given" to me i'd use it
but probably not .. seeing in 30 years time cosmic + solar radiation
will probably increase &c to change good to bad ( even quicker than it already does )
if you bought a mountain of AZO paper, that would make it in full glory
seeing it is pretty much the only stuff that seems to last, and last, and last ...

this whole conversation is kind of funny, seeing
the world is supposed to end in just a few weeks
so i am just going to shoot my expired film and paper
like it's 1999

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Can I ask that you show me the proven science that has been researched, tested, evaluated, peer-reviewed and accepted as fact (not heresy) that film will be entirely useable in 30 years from this date.

Better still, roll out the film stockpile that you ferreted away in 1980 and publish your findings.

Until we are better informed with science, and not populist opinion, then, and only then, talk about what film will be like a few decades from now.

 

[georg16nik]

We are not thinking about the effects of humidity... We are talking about the natural properties of celluloid and the stability of the emulsion.
Show me film that has been in cold storage for 30 years and just been removed. That is the challenge now, not 30 years hence.

Slow materials, film or paper, keeps well even at room temp. 30 years in freeze or proper environment is nothing.
Kodak Tech pan, AgfaPan 25 and ORWO NP15 keeps very good in freeze, they are like new, fixed grade papers as well.

 

[ROL]

I am serious about my photography (I am working towards being a fine art photographer)...

Am I missing anything? I know I might appear nuts, but I've thought it through.... mostly!

Serious and fine art? You better have a lifetime of extra cash (or sleep with the right people) if your goal is to make it as a fine artist. Sorry for the metaphorical dowsing of cold water, but I can't seem to find the slap across the face SNAP OUT OF IT "smiley".

 

[georg16nik]

Can I ask that you show me the proven science that has been researched, tested, evaluated, peer-reviewed and accepted as fact (not heresy) that film will be entirely useable in 30 years from this date.

Better still, roll out the film stockpile that you ferreted away in 1980 and publish your findings.

Until we are better informed with science, and not populist opinion, then, and only then, talk about what film will be like a few decades from now.

You might also like to see a certificate from Wetzlar verifying that my Leica I is still with original shutter and parts and is working as new?

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

You might also like to see a certificate from Wetzlar verifying that my Leica I is still with original shutter and parts and is working as new?

Just show me the tested, proven, published science about long-term frozen storage of film, not the piffle about Leicas. Thanks.

 

[BrianShaw]

Just show me the tested, proven, published science about long-term frozen storage of film, not the piffle about Leicas. Thanks.

I'd be happy with any kind of scientific data, published or not... all I've ever heard is experiential opinion.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

I'd be happy with any kind of scientific data, published or not... all I've ever heard is experiential opinion.

Bring it on please. As I've said in previous posts, I want to see facts based on proven, reviewed science, and not amateur populist opinion.

 

[PKM-25]

Serious and fine art? You better have a lifetime of extra cash (or sleep with the right people) if your goal is to make it as a fine artist. Sorry for the metaphorical dowsing of cold water, but I can't seem to find the slap across the face SNAP OUT OF IT "smiley".

Sorry to turn the burner on underneath your cold water but have you considered that unlike 99% of the so called "fine art" photography out there, his might actually be good?

And where have people got this "stored for 30 years" stuff? None of the film I have stored will live in my freezer beyond ten years, color less than 5. That is the whole idea behind creating the 10-15 year basis in the initial stock then using and replacing regularly. There is more of this going on than any of you may realize, Christopher Burkett bought a crapload of Ilfochrome recently along with his color films of choice.

We all have our priorities, mine is making damn good and sure I never have digital become my only option...

 

[Andre Noble]

None of the film I have stored will live in my freezer beyond ten years, color less than 5.

I assume you are referencing to the idea that you will actively burn through your stockpile in this time rather than it's 'keepability'?

I recently found a boxed, unexposed roll of 120 Velvia 50 exp. 2003 that was absolutely ABUSED with heat in a hot closet in a L.A.basin bldg for those 9 years. I exposed it and discovered much to my amazement that it had only an appx 5cc salmon shift. I have every faith that this same film, if frozen when fresh and exposed same amount of time later, would have needed no CC color correction.

 

[Andre Noble]

selling off fogged expired de-speeded film at a profit ? am trying to figure out how that pans out seeing i for the most part only purchase
am trying to figure out how that pans out seeing i for the most part only purchase
expired / outdated film ( and paper ), it is usually for less than paid for when new ...
and just before the film / paper would have hit the landfill.

Apparently you've haven't worked the simple calculation that in a few year's time, there will be NO color film that is not "expired/outdated". Ditto for many of the currently available, superior B&W emulsions such as Kodak TXP 320 and TX 400.

So in fact, if you're still alive, and unless you stockpile yourself you'll be buying from me (or others like me) on Ebay in 10, 15 years - I guarantee it.

 

[removed account4]

Apparently you've haven't worked the simple calculation that in a few year's time, there will be NO color film that is not "expired/outdated". Ditto for many of the currently available, superior B&W emulsions such as Kodak TXP 320 and TX 400.

So in fact, if you're still alive, and unless you stockpile yourself you'll be buying from me (or others like me) on Ebay in 10, 15 years - I guarantee it.

hi andre

i have worked it out, and don't shoot color film for the most part, when i do it is numbery.
if i want "authentic" color, i will do tri color, not color film and use the doohicky on my desk
to compile the image .. or i'll hand color a b/w print ...

in 10-15 years time i will fall back on something i was doing in the 1980s (and never stopped) ..
when i was in college i taught myself to coat plates ... no expensive workshops,
no internet, just a 1904 annual with a recipe ...

besides, i find it much easier to coat glass or paper, than shooting expired film ...


do you currently shoot expired film, film that was cold stored for 10-20years ?
or are you just expecting that your film will be good without a "dry run" ..

 

[Andre Noble]

hi andre

do you currently shoot expired film, film that was cold stored for 10-20years ?
or are you just expecting that your film will be good without a "dry run" ..

Actually yes, most of the color film I have shot over the past 10 years has been expired film from Calumet Hollywood's expired film bin (room temp).

I have 260 4x5 sheets of Fuji Astia Exp. 2003. Now how many guys would LOVE to shoot Astia in 4x5 sheets, even with a correctable 5cc magenta shift?

To answer your question about the FRESH film I have recently frozen, here's a metaphor: When you were a kid, did you ever hit a bump or patch of ice/gravel with your sled or bike - immediately afterward - but before you hit the ground/tree, etc - you had absolute clarity - your sole job was to mitigate your injury.

That's were we are right now with film. I feel in 10, 15, 20 years we will know more exactly which developers go best to minimize base+fog on our expired B&W films, and what exposure adjustment, what CC filter and which developer additive to add to our expired color films to minimize color shift, etc.

I feel confident I can get a useable color negative with frozen 160 ASA Kodak Portra color negative film in 20 years, yes.

 

[ROL]

Sorry to turn the burner on underneath your cold water but have you considered that unlike 99% of the so called "fine art" photography out there, his might actually be good?

Having actual experience in fine art realm, both representing and selling, I can say without qualification that being "good" has little if anything to do with success. That money would be better spent on establishing connections. The best advice ever given on how to succeed is to marry rich. That direction will get you farther than just being good. Sorry your boiling water has put out its own fire.

 

[removed account4]

Actually yes, most of the color film I have shot over the past 10 years has been expired film from Calumet Hollywood's expired film bin (room temp).

I have 260 4x5 sheets of Fuji Astia Exp. 2003. Now how many guys would LOVE to shoot Astia in 4x5 sheets, even with a correctable 5cc magenta shift?

To answer your question about the FRESH film I have recently frozen, here's a metaphor: When you were a kid, did you ever hit a bump or patch of ice/gravel with your sled or bike - immediately afterward - but before you hit the ground/tree, etc - you had absolute clarity - your sole job was to mitigate your injury.

That's were we are right now with film. I feel in 10, 15, 20 years we will know more exactly which developers go best to minimize base+fog on our expired B&W films, and what exposure adjustment, what CC filter and which developer additive to add to our expired color films to minimize color shift, etc.

I feel confident I can get a useable color negative with frozen 160 ASA Kodak Portra color negative film in 20 years, yes.

i see what you are saying andre --- good to see you are embracing it.

are you going to acquire color chemistry too ?
in 10 or 15 years time it might be very hard to process color film stock...
i guess hair dye and lye and tylenol will always work in a pinch ...

john

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Actually yes, most of the color film I have shot over the past 10 years has been expired film from Calumet Hollywood's expired film bin (room temp).

I have 260 4x5 sheets of Fuji Astia Exp. 2003. Now how many guys would LOVE to shoot Astia in 4x5 sheets, even with a correctable 5cc magenta shift?

To answer your question about the FRESH film I have recently frozen, here's a metaphor: When you were a kid, did you ever hit a bump or patch of ice/gravel with your sled or bike - immediately afterward - but before you hit the ground/tree, etc - you had absolute clarity - your sole job was to mitigate your injury.

That's were we are right now with film. I feel in 10, 15, 20 years we will know more exactly which developers go best to minimize base+fog on our expired B&W films, and what exposure adjustment, what CC filter and which developer additive to add to our expired color films to minimize color shift, etc.

I feel confident I can get a useable color negative with frozen 160 ASA Kodak Portra color negative film in 20 years, yes.

Are you going to answer questions straight out or continue going around in circles? Blah, blah, blah, blah.
Just provide the proof that film that has been frozen for 15, 20, 30 years (I've observed how your figures are now all over the place) is entirely useable and that the methods and means by which is is processed are available. You have not provided any proof, just bluff and bluster.

Regarding fine art. Oh please! How is this somehow entwined with film, and only film? Have you studied the realm of fine art? What branches throughout the realm of "fine art" rely solely on film? Photography? Really? I don't think so! I don't equate film, either its type, quantity, reputation or availability, with "fine art". Yet more nonsense being espoused by those thinking they've been there, done that and can thank film.

Your naivety is startling, truly startling. I don't think you've been in photography all that long, especially professional practice. Please just get on with photography rather than repeating how much film you've stuffed away for D-Day. And don't be so bloody rude and arrogant to assume of others, "if you're still alive" (presumably, we can wonder about you too?) we can stockpile! I think you need to shake out of your stupor, along with a few others.