Thinking about purchasing a LF camera...

[2F/2F]

If you don't need an extremely portable camera, Sinar Fs are ridiculously low in price right now. An F-1, which is an entry model, can be had for about $300, sometimes with accessories, and probably about $600 with a basic lens. Sinars are like Legos. This F-1 model can easily be converted to another model should you ever feel the need. I see not much point in getting anything else on the bargain used end at this point, since this is so cheap for about the best you can get.

For a field camera, others will be able to help you more than I, as I take my Sinar with the light standards for field work. I have had a lot of luck with a Speed Graphic in the field, before I got the Sinar.

Don't forget that there will be a learning curve to get through, some style modifications to make (lest ye be deep in the purse and wish to be in your darkroom every free minute for perpetuity), and also an over-all darkroom modification. You'll need to move to a 4x5 capable enlarger, if you don't have one already. You'll need to find an efficient way to process and dry your film. Various accessories, film holders, loupe, meter, dark cloth, etc.

 

[jasonjoo]

Thanks Tim!

Nick, my budget is relatively high. I sold off most of my 35mm gear and so whatever I make from there I'll put towards the LF system. However, I want to save a few hundred for a dSLR (I know I know... but it's much easier than shooting 35mm negs, developing, and scanning).

I would say a budget of around $1500. I don't think that's much, but that's a lot for me

Thanks FlyingCamera! I think I'll go with the aluminum.

2F, I think portability is key. I might hike a bit with it, so the lighter the camera the better.

Jason

 

[Nick Zentena]

Buy a used 5x7. Ansco etc. Might cost $250. Some film holders. Use some of the budget for a couple of lenses.

Get an extra 5x7 darkslide and cut it into an L. You'll be able to shoot two 6x17 images per 5x7 sheet of film.

At some point you'll figure out what you like/hate. What you want to change. The holder and lenses will work on the next camera you buy. The camera could be sold for basically what you paid. Don't let anybody convince you the first will be perfect or your last camera. So don't invest lots into a camera until you know exactly what you want.

 

[Len Eselson]

Nothing wrong with the Shen Hao but you might also
consider the Chamonix. Info here and
on Large Format Forum. Good pics at
http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178

Len

 

[John Kasaian]

What Nick Zentena says

 

[jasonjoo]

Nick, that is sound advice indeed! I guess I won't know anything until I get my feet wet, but I highly doubt I will be shooting 5x7 or larger any time soon. 4x5 seems like a cost effective way to get my feet wet in large format photography and I also like the aspect ratio as well.

Len, the Chamonix looks like another great alternative to the Shen Hao! Has anyone tried both? If so, could you post a brief comparison of the two cameras?

Thanks again for all of the help everyone! This is a fine community.

Jason

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I'll agree with John, Nick & Company in that your first LF camera will 99% likely not be your last. I'd counter with going straight to 5x7 is probably not the best idea - 4x5 is a great learning tool for getting in to LF - the film is still widely available, it is the easiest to handle (not that 5x7 is hard), and screw-ups are the least costly. I ended up at a Canham 5x7/5x12 after going through 4x5 and 8x10. It is a process of trying different formats and different cameras until you arrive at the best combination of format and camera.

 

[jasonjoo]

Does anyone here have more information of the Chamonix 4x5 camera? I really like the rail design and I must say, it is one great looking camera. If I can find a place to order, I think I may choose this camera over the Shen Hao.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this camera? I read the review here:

http://forum.getdpi.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178

I've read that you must order though a Hugo Zhang, but I am not sure where I could contact him. I wish I could order from a reputable company, but this may not be an option. Has anyone worked with Hugo before?

Thanks,

Jason

 

[Nick Zentena]

The advantages of 5x7 tend to be:

Big enough to contact print.
Not much bigger then a 4x5 camera. Fact is some 4x5 cameras are really 5x7s with 4x5 backs.
Many 4x5 lenses cover 5x7.

Plus if you really want 6x17 then it's the cheapest choice.

I thought Hugo posts here?

 

[Martin Aislabie]

If you want to shoot 6x17 at some point you will need to have a 5x7 camera - and enlarger
Its too big for a 4x5
The 4x5 will cover 6x12

And - watch the budget - LF stuff gobbles through your finances at an alarming rate of knots

Good luck
Martin

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Hugo is a regular over on Large Format Info forum (www.largeformatphotography.info/forum). He is well regarded, and a very fine photographer in his own right. I would be comfortable buying from him.

 

[jp80874]

Search on the Large Format forum and you will find much written on both cameras.

John Powers

 

[jasonjoo]

Nick, Martin, 5x7 is out of the picture for me at the moment. The price of sheet film is one deterrent and I actually prefer the 4x5 ratio over 5x7. Perhaps once I've gotten my feet wet, I'll dive into different sizes, but I think 4x5 may be the sweet spot (but who knows!). 6x17 would be nice, but not crucial. I don't mind shooting 6x12 for the time being.

FlyingCamera, thanks for the information. I've gotten in contact with Hugo. I think I may choose the Chamonix over the Shen Hao, but I really do not know what the difference between the two cameras are. I'm actually leaning towards the Chamonix because... it looks nice... It may be dumb reason, but I'm not even sure what to look for in an LF camera at this point, so I have no basis on where to start looking.

John, I've searched "Chamonix" on the large format forum and there was not much information on the camera. I'll look up "Shen Hao" and see what kind of information that pulls up.

Thanks everyone,

Jason

 

[Nick Zentena]

Jason almost any 5x7 can take a 4x5 back. Changing the back is fairly simple. If you leave the 4x5 back on it'll mostly be a 4x5 camera. They tend to be heavier and often don't go extremely wide but on the flip side they tend to have longer bellows then just a 4x5.

 

[jasonjoo]

Hey Nick,

To my limited understanding, longer bellows means I'll be able to use a longer lens correct? However, does it also means that if I use a wider lens (ok, so I'm not familiar with what's considered wide and long with LF, so the numbers I'll be using is purely for reference sake), lets say around 100mm, and extend the bellows to 200mm, will I be able to get higher than a 1:1 magnification for macro work?

I am very new to all of this stuff, so I do not know what "longer bellows" really means to me. However, I'd like to do some macro work and be able to use some what long lenses. My main focus will be landscapes and portraits, so I can see where wide lens will be useful as well as longer lenses.

Another important factor to me is weight. The Chamonix camera weighs in around 4 pounds without the lens, which seems pretty good to me! If anything, I'll add a 6x12 back with the 4x5 camera to do color work. I'll buy a few color sheets, but I like to develop my own negatives too, which at this point, is limited to black and white.

Thanks for your help,

Jason

 

[Nick Zentena]

Yup you've got it right. The only problem with really long bellows is some times they don't compress enough to use really wide lenses. Or even if they can compress they might not let you use much movements.

 

[k_jupiter]

Yup you've got it right. The only problem with really long bellows is some times they don't compress enough to use really wide lenses. Or even if they can compress they might not let you use much movements.

Let us let the guy get a LF camera before introducing issues as esoteric as bag bellows, super wide angle lens, macro photography, etc.

My best advice... a 5x7 ansco, B&J, or whatnot with two backs, 5x7 and 4x5, a couple of holders in each size, a great light meter, a good loupe, and a copy of BTZS.

Go to town.

tim in san jose

 

[jasonjoo]

The Chamonix can go from 45mm to 395mm which seems like a pretty wide range. I'll have to look for a chart online that converts LF focal lengths to 35mm just to get a feel for what these numbers will mean to me in the near future.

Thanks,

Jason

 

[Nick Zentena]

150mm on 4x5 is basically normal. So divide by 3. But that ignores the difference in format shape. Might be better to compare to 6x7.

 

[toyosnapper]

FWIW I've been happy with my Toyo 45A. It's metal so prob a bit heavier than the wooden ones, but it sets up very rigidly & has a pull out rear extension which can be used to rough focus which is useful at times. I use Rodenstock 55 mm; 90 mm (6.8 version) & Schneider 150mm. The 55 mm is good with a 6 x 12 RFB. Dennis.

 

[Nick Zentena]

Let us let the guy get a LF camera before introducing issues as esoteric as bag bellows, super wide angle lens, macro photography, etc.

My best advice... a 5x7 ansco, B&J, or whatnot with two backs, 5x7 and 4x5, a couple of holders in each size, a great light meter, a good loupe, and a copy of BTZS.

Go to town.

tim in san jose

I missed this this morning.

I don't think figuring out if the camera can handle his favorite lens is too much.

My suggestion was an Ansco with 4x5 and 5x7 backs to. But he wants something different.

 

[k_jupiter]

I missed this this morning.

I don't think figuring out if the camera can handle his favorite lens is too much.

My suggestion was an Ansco with 4x5 and 5x7 backs to. But he wants something different.

That's fair... but he doesn't have a favorite lens. Or even a favorite lens range. What I see is he is amazed at a camera that can go from 45mm to several hundred. How often is he gonna need those capabilities? I still think a 5x7 tailboard with a 150mm fuji 6.3 and a 4x5 back is a fine option to start with. Not enough movements to get totally blown away with, the 150 will handle both formats, they are tough little cameras, no need to get a new tripod, lots of options to develop his LF vision, and when he needs something else, he'll get his money out. When he wants to put a 300mm or 405 on it for portraiture, the camera will handle it.

tim in san jose

 

[Len Eselson]

Hugo Zhang can be found at
hugoz_2000@yahoo.com

Len

 

[Nick Zentena]

That's fair... but he doesn't have a favorite lens. Or even a favorite lens range.

But he does want to do roll film and is talking about 1:1. Opposite ends of the scale.

I still think he is better off learning these things now then whining about them afterwards.

 

[jasonjoo]

Interesting dialogue Nick and Tim! Geez, I hope I won't become a whiner later down the road

I do apologize for my lack of knowledge in the large format world. I really should find a book in the library and read up on it more.

Selecting a focal length before understanding how to use the camera does seem pretentious of me. However, I'm not sure HOW often I would use the movements of the camera (and I guess the focal length of the lens will inhibit some movements). The movements to me will be important to control DOF and for selective focus. Perspective control is not TOO important as I don't do much interior/architecture type shots.

As for my lens "kit," I'd like to have something that is a little wider than normal and another lens in the 90mm range (in 35mm terms, so I'm guessing 300mm in LF). I'm not sure how these lenses will perform with the camera movements though.

Len, thanks! I've been shooting a few emails back and forth with Hugo. I really think I am set on this Chamonix!

Thanks,

Jason