Thinking about getting a shen hao ptb

[jfcarlstrom]

Hi

I am thinking of getting into LF photography. I have quiet a few questions that I was hoping someone could help me with. My photographic interest is rather diverse, but I would use this camera for landscapes, city environments, streets etc.



After some research I found a camera called shen hao ptb, which cost about 900 usd new. It is very light at about 3 pounds, and seems to offer movements similar to other 4x5 cameras that I looked at.



• Bellows Extention: 45mm-390mm

• Lens board: Linhof Technika size

• Front Raise & Fall:45mm/20mm

• Front Shift: 38mm/38mm

• Front axis Tilt: Limited only by the bellows

• Front Swing: Limited only by the bellows

• Rear Base Tilt Forward: Limited only by the bellows

• Rear Base Tilt Back: 35 degrees

• Rear Swing: 30 degrees



Is this bellow extension sufficient for lenses in the 120-240mm range?

Are these movements sufficient to corrections of converging lines etc when photographing street environments?

Perhaps there is a better option?



Regarding lenses, I have good previous experience of fuji optics. I notice there is a fuji W series which is rather affordable. I also notices the Schneider APO Symmar series. It costs a bit more. Would you recommend these?



The camera comes with a lens board. Can I just attach any lens I want to it?

Anything else you think I should know before getting into this?




Cheers

//

Johan

 

[LJH]

Johan,

Excellent camera!

Bellows draw is (IMO) quite ample, even if you're considering close-up work (almost 1:1 with a 210mm lens is heaps).

Movements will be more than enough unless you're considering major architectural work. One trap for the new player is putting too much emphasis on movements. The photos of pretzeled cameras is misleading.

Fujinon lenses are excellent, as, too, are the APO Symmars. I doubt that you'll see any meaningful difference in their performance, so would recommend the cheaper one.

Lens boards come in sizes relative to the shutter size. This is based on the size of the hole in them.

I would strongly recommend that you do a heap of research. Not being critical, but some of your questions are quite basic and easily answered with about 5 minutes on Google. Again, that is not written to be critical. One thing I'd do if I was you is have a look at the front page of Large Format Forum. Many of your questions will be covered.

 

[chuck94022]

It is a perfectly fine camera to meet your concerns. There are many fine cameras available. If you are considering Shen Hao, I would also recommend considering the Chamonix 045N2 . Similar price, very light, great movements, exceptionally well built, and in my opinion, a better option than the Shen Hao (but that's just personal, others will disagree).

That said, many others will meet your needs. You can find a Wista, or others, also available with almost the same features.

Good luck!

-chuck

 

[Alan Gales]

APUG is great but since you are interested in large format you need to join Large Format Photography Forum too. I'm a member there as are quite a few APUG members. Here is some information that should help from Large Format Photography Forum.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/

The Shen Hao should be an excellent choice for you. Also look at Chamonix.

For a first lens I would go with a 150mm to 210mm. The 135mm lenses are nice but don't have as large an image circle. Look for Fujinon, Schneider, Rodenstock, Nikkor or Caltar in a modern Copal shutter. All are sharp and contrasty and there really isn't much difference between them. Let price and condition be your guide.

The Shen Hao and Chamonix 4x5 cameras both take Linhof style lens boards. You just need to match the Linhof style board to your shutter. Most modern lenses came in Copal 0, Copal 1 or Copal 3 shutters. Some shutters are larger than others and require a larger hole in the lens boards.

Welcome to large format photography. You are in for a lot of fun!

 

[chuck94022]

FYI, from what I can tell, the Shen Hao is a clone of the Chamonix. Given that, and the fact that the owner of Chamonix is a Chinese large format photographer, I recommend (and own) the Chamonix. While cloning is de rigueur in China, I prefer to reward the first maker. (Of course, the Chamonix borrows heavily from other designs, but it isn't like large format cameras are a recent idea...)

 

[250swb]

Exactly eight hours from first thread post to 'my camera is better than yours'.

 

[wildbill]

chamonix 45n-2. It's built with better materials, quite possibly more rigid, more available accessories, and there's a ton of happy users out there. The u.s. contact, Hugo Zhang, is a great guy to deal with and these cameras have a very high resale value should your decide it's not for you.

 

[jimjm]

Johan -

I've used a Shen-Hao TZ45-IIb for years and have been very happy with it.
Range of movements and bellows extensions have been fine for all types of landscape, architecture and portrait work. Like LJH mentioned, these cameras have a much greater range of movement than you may ever use, unless doing specialized architecture or studio work.
The controls are easy to adjust and lock down securely (this is important).
I've heard very good things about Fujinon lenses, but any of the other modern lenses like El-Nikkor, Schneider or Rodenstock are going to be great. One think to consider is the image circle of the lens. A larger image circle allows for more camera movements before showing vignetting.

The camera you're looking at has a much greater bellows extension than mine (45-390mm vs 75-340mm) and is much lighter (3 lb vs 4.7 lb). The lighter weight is great when you're carrying the camera, but may be a problem in windy conditions and be less rigid than a heavier camera. There's always a trade-off.

Shen-Hao are a very good value for the money, IMHO. There are tons of other great 4x5 cameras, especially on the used market, as others have mentioned above.

 

[jfcarlstrom]

Thank you everyone for your comments. Yes of course I need to do more research, but I thought writing a post on this forum would be helpful, and indeed it was.

I did not know about the chamonoix 45 cameras. They seem very similar in performance (and indeed they should be if the ptb is a clone). Thanks for pointing that out.

It appears to me that 150mm lenses typically has an image radius of 22-23 cm or so. The diameter of a 4x5 is 160mm so this should be sufficient for exploiting some camera movements. Is that also your experience?

It seems to me that wide angle lenses are much more limited in this regard. To me a large part of the point with LF is movements. Clearly, shift does require a reasonable image circle, but tilting the rear standard to gain depth of field when shooting landscape might still work with an image circle of say 180mm?

 

[Alan Gales]

A 150mm lens in a modern Copal shutter should be perfect for your first lens with plenty of room for movements unless of course you prefer a little longer focal length like a 180 or 210.

Chamonix is very popular. They are hard to find on the used market. If buying new I would go for a Chamonix. If you want to spend less money, then Shen Haos show up quite often on the used market. Some prefer Chamonix, some prefer Shen Hao and others prefer other models. There is no one right answer that fits everyone. I shoot a Wehman 8x10.

 

[ritternathan]

FWIW, I have a Chamonix 45n-2, and can recommend it without reservations, its incredibly light and rigid. I bought mine used at KEH (though I have never seen one there again). If you want to buy used, go sign up for the Large Format Forum and wait 30 days, then just watch the FS section or put out a Want to buy notice. I have seen several go for sale at LFF for around your price point, but you will have to be patient. The only problem I have is how light can be when set up in the field, I have to hang my backpack on the tripod to keep it from blowing over in a lot of places. The fuji lenses are great, I have the fuji 150 F5.6 and the 240mm F9 both multi-coated and as sharp as anyone would want or need.

 

[Alan Gales]

Here is Kerry Thalmann's info on Fujinon lenses. http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/fujinon.htm

I own Fujinon-W 180mm f/5.6 and 250mm f/6.7 lenses. Both earlier single coated models. Since you also mentioned Schneider, I also own a Schneider Super-Angulon 121mm f8 lens. Also single coated. All 3 are plenty sharp.

 

[darinwc]

The Shen Hao ptb is a clone of the Chamonix. A big difference is that the Chamonix uses carbon fiber for the base components. The Shen Hao uses wood. I think the Chamonix, at the same price, is a better camera from the looks but I don't have them to compare. I do have a Shen Hao Hz model that I am very happy with and the build quality is great. Only downside is that it has limited extending compared to the other two.

So if you can find a used model of either you will be happy. But if you are buying new, I would go for the Chamonix.

Fuji lenses are great. I have one in my kit and my friend has one as well. But read up on the different versions.

Schneider APO lenses are overpriced IMHO .
Their older S and MC lenses are just as good. Also Rodenstock and Nikon made excellent lenses. But the Fuji lenses do tend to sell for less.

 

[wildbill]

Just to clarify, Chamonix uses carbon fiber OVER the top wood. Most folks think it's solid carbon fiber.