The weird and wonderful world of the camera club

[garryl]

I always thought that clubs were intended for members to share photos, experiences, techniques and occasionally, resources. Healthy dosages of constructive criticism help each other to make better photographs.

It's one of the main reasons that I enjoy this site...

Really, I once did belong to a club like that, then the "new guard" took over
and it was slide this and slide that; my lense is faster than yours; but PSA say we should do it this way; I just got 100 point.
The old clubs (pre-1960's) seem to be , from articles I've read, to have been more "group doers" . They'd get together to do group project. Many donating
equipment and labor and expertise to accomplish a group goal.

I really think that the internet is the camera club of today.

 

[arigram]

I do have a group of people interested in photography that we casually get together and share prints, information, or go shooting. What happens within clubs is there is usually a hierarchy that includes "presidents", "pros" who look down upon "amateurs", "old members" that disrespect "new members", the "comformist majority" that oppresses and outcasts the "revolutionaries". Nowdays there is the "digitals" vs the "analogs" and so and so forth. There are tiltles, awards, money involved, competitions, exhibitions, etc. Too much stress, too much pressure, too much competition and little creativity invoved. The majority with the guidance of the President and the Party strangles any creativity and pressure it inside a tight box of rules and cliche aesthetics. A friend of mine shocked the club because she included TWO women in one shot!
Soon all art movements and groups take the way of the Communistic Party and become stalinistic and tyrannical, take the Surrealists for example.
Artists should be around other artists to influence and support each other but in a free, open and casual manner, not imprisonned inside a small, dark cell.
The good thing about online "clubs" such as APUG is that even though the interraction between members is very limited and distant, atleast has the flip side of letting the people a lot more free.

 

[Ed Sukach]

It is all too easy to hide your work from others, and delude yourself that it is top quality, to you it may be, to others, who knows.

I'm really giving this last proposition a LOT of thought.

I know that this is one of the raisons d'etre cited by the Camera Club judges ... and others ... that the Neophyte simply does not know what is good ... and there is a implication that the Judges do - and that the delusional one must be brought into line.

I've been trying to recall *one* instance of any photographer I thought was delusional (other than unusually so - we all are to an extent) and genuinely believed - or claimed - that his/her work was top quality when it wasn't.

For a moment I'll put aside the difficulty of determining what is "top quality work" and concentrate on the "claiming". Two "classes" (stop the teeth gritting everyone - just a figure of speech) do not claim that they produce "top quality work" .. not exclusively .. the "beginner" and the truly "significant photographers who have `made it' to the top".

One has a difficult time convincing a neophyte that *any* of their work has merit - translation: is "good". I have seen breathtaking images nearly tossed into the circular files - "It's only MY work - so it can't be any good." At the other end of the spectrum, the most significant do not claim "top quality". I remember one conversation: "Oh, Mr. XXX, you are the greatest photographer in the world." His embarrassed reply, "Well, I take photographs. Every once in a while, I guess I get a good one. I hope someone LIKES my work."

I can't recall anyone every saying "I do top quality work" ... or even some permutation of that.... and I've met a lot of strange people. Some will attempt to lead you there, but that is really from a sense of insecurity, or plain out swindling... rather than a delusional belief.

Come to think of it ""I produce top quality work" is probably the last thing I'd say. I can't think of anything that would sound more stupid.

 

[Ed Sukach]

Artists should be around other artists to influence and support each other but in a free, open and casual manner, not imprisonned inside a small, dark cell.
The good thing about online "clubs" such as APUG is that even though the interraction between members is very limited and distant, atleast has the flip side of letting the people a lot more free.

Bravo!!! WELL said!!!

 

[Dave Miller]

I considered an ad in the paper, but who knows what wierdos would fall from the rafters using a shotgun approach like that?

That's exactly how the East Midland Monchrome Group was started, by placing a notice in a Photo mag; so why not give it a try - here would be a good place to start.
For those in, or visiting England, our doors are open to all, and not a competition in sight.

 

[Dave Miller]

Dave, i'm happy to take constructive criticism. It's small-minded, jealous, spiteful criticism from people who don't enter the competition themselves that gets up my nose. I did have people coming up to me saying they really like the gravestone shot and gave it 8 or 9. The ones who marked it down so much did so, not because of any genuine critical concerns but because they didn't like it.
As I said earlier, even if I don't like a picture I will still mark it on its technical merits at least and I would want others to do the same. There are so many tastes out there that to write something off and then be derogatory about it because it doesn't suit yours is just a stupid way to run a successful club.

I take your point. I have had the not uncommon experience of a print scoring top points in one competition and being at the bottom in the next. That just demonstrates the diversity of taste (or lack of it) rather than spite. Thankfully this last isn't something I've come up against, or if I have, its gone unnoticed. My competitive club runs a small print competition, and the results tend to be the opposite to those marked by an experienced judge. However they are well supported, and generally good fun. Remember the poor judge is expected to find a "winner", and thereby has to alienate the majority of the membership. This demonstrates that they must have a screw loose to take the job on in the first place!

 

[philldresser]

I need to rant.
After attending another session of my local camera club I am once again wondering why I bother. It was a club competition night, no theme, just had to be emprint sized (6x4). Apart from that anything goes. Marks are awarded out of 10 by all members then are totted up to give an average out of 10 score. Our resident pro then gives a short critique on each image and gives his own mark just as a reference. .....

Rant over

Sparx

Dont feel like your the only one. I submitted my first ever shot to a panel last week. Out of +-80 entries mine was the only one not to score a single mark out of 10

Ask Les, I'm sure he had a quiet chuckle

Phill

 

[modafoto]

We are not exactly a Photo Club, but The International Rodinal Militia (IRM) welcome all people with the right belief (the acknowledgement of Rodinal as the almighty God. The One and Only true God to rule this world!)

If we find out that a member have been using another developer we wont be mad....just a bit disappointed. Of course we kill the bastard by drowning him in concentrated Rodinal, too.

Morten (The high Priest of Rodinal who sacrifices his first born child to the One)

 

[esearing]

Club politics usually drive away members before a bad judge will. Especially for those who are active members supporting the club. When the club starts getting in the way of life it is time to quit.

I prefer to meet another photographer or two at the local coffee house and swap stories and discuss current works. Wanna learn from a pro - go to work for them as an assistant or pay for a workshop.

 

[Helen B]

Aristotelis wrote:
'Soon all art movements and groups take the way of the Communistic Party and become stalinistic and tyrannical...'

There's something in that. They're adulterating your vital fluids, those Commie Pinko Rats. When was the last time you saw a Commie use Rodinal?

Best
Helen

 

[Graeme Hird]

Just stage a coup and install your friends as judges. Sure fire way of winning the competitions .....

Or you can just shoot for yourself, show the prints or slides at the club but NEVER enter them in the comps. Eventually people start asking why you never enter and you can vent your spleen.

But do shoot for yourself .....

(PS - I'm the president of the Goldfields Camera Club in Kalgoorlie. Not all clubs are as you have found.)

 

[Max Power]

We are not exactly a Photo Club, but The International Rodinal Militia (IRM) welcome all people with the right belief (the acknowledgement of Rodinal as the almighty God. The One and Only true God to rule this world!)

If we find out that a member have been using another developer we wont be mad....just a bit disappointed. Of course we kill the bastard by drowning him in concentrated Rodinal, too.

Morten (The high Priest of Rodinal who sacrifices his first born child to the One)

But Morten,
What if there are those who wish to join the IRM, but can only get their chemistry stained mitts on ID-11 and D-76...Can they be associate members of the IRM?

Kent

 

[Leon]

I need to rant.
After attending another session of my local camera club I am once again wondering why I bother. It was a club competition night, no theme, just had to be emprint sized (6x4). Apart from that anything goes. Marks are awarded out of 10 by all members then are totted up to give an average out of 10 score. Our resident pro then gives a short critique on each image and gives his own mark just as a reference. Both my entries have been posted on my blog, Laura and Dead Mans Fingers and boy did they crash and burn.

I am actually used to this. The club members as a rule are digiphiles and don't do B&W unless it's a requirement so mine never get a good mark. On top of that I didn't take a picture of a horse, a pet or a steam train. I thought the kid shot would do quite well but I was mistaken.

What suprised and disgusted me though, the average mark for all pictures was 6 out of 10 with nothing getting higher than an 8. Worse than that was the comments being made during the pro's critique. They were the stuff of catty 14 year old school girls.

What must we think of ourselves as a club that we cannot appreciate other members photos but instead must pull them down and rip them to pieces. I personally am bored with seeing the same images again and again but, if the picture is well taken, is technically good and well presented i will still give it a good mark. I won't give something 2 out of 10 because I don't like it and then verbally slag it off in front of everyone. That's going to bring in and keep new members isn't it!

Just for the record our Pro gave Laura 81/2 and Dead mans fingers 9, the club gave Laura 5 and Dead man 2!

Will i be going back? Yes i probably will and next time i'm going to enter a cyanotype print of an abstract I took with my home-made pinhole camera. I'm predicting one heart attack, two strokes and a lynch mob out for my blood.

Rant over

camera clubs - i avoid them like the plague - for exactly the reasons you give above

 

[doughowk]

To be reasonably successful/fulfilling I suspect a club needs to be united around some aspect of photography that they are championing. Photography is too broad, especially if you include digital, to have meaningful exchange of ideas in any club setting. An alt process club would be a good example of narrowly focused group of members who are truly interested in sharing techniques, etc.. A Large Format camera group, monochrome only or possibly local APUGs are other examples of groups that can satisfy more of their members needs.

Another aspect that would be helpful is the proper display of prints. Even competitions could be beneficial if you were able to get up close & view the prints in a proper setting. Sitting in an audience while images are displayed on an easel only engenders learning what subjects are popular with judges.

 

[Joe Lipka]

There is the possibility that you should find a "photography" club rather than a "camera" club. That is truly closer to what is needed. The interest should be in the photography, not the camera.

 

[WarEaglemtn]

One fun thing to do with those who encourage 'follow the rules' and 'everyone copies what got good marks last time' it to slip in a lesser known but excellent image by one of the Westons, Adams, Caponigro or someone of similar stature. Let it get savaged & only then uncover the covered up signature & see if opinions change. This works especially well with Ansel Adams images as so many of the photo club people have heard the name.
It cold be worse. You could have the people who critique walking around with the abominable scorecards... giving 'points' for following the rules, etc. This encourages copycat photos more than anything I have ever seen. It really stifles creativity in creation as well as in viewing images.

 

[Nige]

ours ain't too bad... I could mention specific examples but I won't!

At our print nights, we're allowed to put up to 3 pics on the walls to be 'judged' by the 'judge' We call them something else, but I can't remember the term used. The Judge comments on all the prints, then awards Commended and Highly commended awards (you get a little piece of paper in recognition). There's no defined quantities, some hand out heaps, some hardly any. The prints are segmented into C, B and A grade sections and the judges usually take that into account when making there comments. The A Graders can get a good bollocking at times We usually have 70-90 prints up (and on night's we have a set subject category, add another 20-30) so it's a big task to the judge. Some judges are next to useless, but even for those I go away from the night (not that I go that often) with a few snippets of new info or thoughts on some aspect. Bit like a online critique forum... listen/read and take note of the bits you want too.

One year, I used it as an avenue to force me to print 3 pics a month to a standard I was willing to put them up on the wall. I had one pic of my son that I thought showed some of his character... and the judge commented, "his mother would like it" and moved on! My wife wasn't impressed when I told her that one!

 

[BWGirl]

Boy Sparx, I cannot understand it. I loved that photo "Dead Man's Fingers" from the very first time I saw it!

As for Camera clubs... I belong to 2 very different clubs. One has a large membership, charges dues (not much), and is probably 80% digital shooters (wouldn't know a bottle of Rodinal if it appeared before them). ! They are most like Sparx's club... but they do have qite a few outings & they are pretty good at going to local businesses and negotiating discounts for members.

The other club is small, free, the members mostly shoot slides and they are a tad bit older. But they do all kinds of cool things (like a recent "paint with light night") and they have a lot of outings. The members are all very curious about all photography. In fact they all asked me to put on a presentation about B&W for them next month. They have a lot of questions and are very accepting of different types of photos.

I think it's maybe just a matter of figuring out where you fit. If they are all as icky as most of the ones I've read about here, start your own! I've been toying with this idea myself for a while.

 

[Art Vandalay]

Boy Sparx, I cannot understand it. I loved that photo "Dead Man's Fingers" from the very first time I saw it!

I agree with BWGirl. I can't believe that the club didn't like it!!! Was it because it was of a gravestone? Some people dislike photos that have even a hint of 'darkness' to them.

I'm extremely fortunate that I found a few people with the same tastes and photograpic interests as me. We've been meeting nearly every Saturday morning for about 8 years now. We have coffee, talk about photograpy and show each other our work before going out and wandering around the city shooting. Unfortunately we've lost a few people to work and family but we know there's a pool out there of others who would like to join us.

Also I belong to a photographers co-op gallery where I can meet others with the same (and different) interests, as well as have a chance to show my work in a proper gallery setting. My brief experience with camera clubs have not been very inspirational - it's mainly old men comparing their new cameras.

 

[Dave Miller]

Ive never seen a camera at a camera club, except on practical night that is. Equipment is very rarely discussed in my experience.

 

[modafoto]

But Morten,
What if there are those who wish to join the IRM, but can only get their chemistry stained mitts on ID-11 and D-76...Can they be associate members of the IRM?

Kent

Hmmm...We may open our doors to our fellow analog warriors.

We are all on the same side in the war.

Greetings Morten (who yesterday killed a digital photographer...waiting to be knighted )

 

[sparx]

I might be being too harsh on my fellow club members. We do have some interesting evenings, like a magic lantern show and slideshow based lectures. These nights I do enjoy. It's just their attitude at competition nights is really starting to blow. I will probably end up picking and choosing what nights I attend which is a shame but their loss, not mine, especially as I have a whole portfolio of cemetary shots still to enter .

I would like to have some sort of book club/coffee morning type of 'informal gathering' to go to but i don't think such a thing exists in Norfolk. Perhaps i will have to start one up. How about it Phil? Norfolk Monochrome Group?

 

[Dave Miller]

I would like to have some sort of book club/coffee morning type of 'informal gathering' to go to but i don't think such a thing exists in Norfolk. Perhaps i will have to start one up. How about it Phil? Norfolk Monochrome Group?

Don't delay - start one today. Starter pack available at reduced rate.

 

[Tom Stanworth]

Hi,

I have never been to a camera or photography club, thank goodness (tho I am sure there are a few good'uns out there). Mercifully I have had the misfortune of meeting some members (from various clubs) before ever going near. Unfortunately these meeting have usually been whilst exhibiting work of my own, when the ambience has suffered terribly during their presence. Boring, talentless, unimaginative, childish, social reject, devoid of social skills, body odour, arrogant....all come to mind. Very few have any concept of 'art' and are fully loved up on photographic stuff (filters/digital effects/gizmos). Most also carry worn out plastic bags full of odds and sods (including camera of course). One of my favourites was a chap I missed (but the person sitting in on the exhibition did not). He dicided to stand in the centre of the room giving the visitors his own running commentary (expert advice for free, how generous), also adding that he taught photography at his club and usually did the judging. He also fascinatingly told every single person who passed that he had a lens in his pocket that [pointing at one of my pictures he said] "I could have taken that one with". Had I been there I would have thanked him in my own special way or perhaps charged people (my exhibition was of course free) to see the village idiot. This is not a one off unfortunately and there have been many such encounters....like the chap who told me one of my prints was not very black (when the black background was at Dmax and selenium toned). He was not prepared to discuss it at all. I was wrong, had erred and needed to be told off.....and then there are the print sniffers...

Tom

 

[Leon]

I would like to have some sort of book club/coffee morning type of 'informal gathering' to go to but i don't think such a thing exists in Norfolk. Perhaps i will have to start one up. How about it Phil? Norfolk Monochrome Group?

how about a south and east version, meeting about once every 2 months. I could come along then too! there is nothing but equipment-snobbery or admission by invitation only type clubs that i have found in the south east.