The Shot That Got Away

[IloveTLRs]

I don't like taking photos of people I don't know either, but I have been known to do it. Personally I think if you really want to, perhaps an SLR is not the best option; a rangefinder is much quieter (I have a K1000 too, very loud camera!) TLRs are really good too, since people don't fully understand how they work. I read on some website somewhere that old box cameras are especially good because you can point them in funny directions and your average person on the street doesn't know what it is.

I prefer quiet cameras in general because I don't like to attract attention whatever I'm photographing.

 

[Jarvman]

I don't know whether I would've felt right printing this one but I think it could've been a tragicly comical one. There were a bunch of kids jumping around on these spring loaded boots launching themselves into the air in the city center. They were doing it for charity and they had to keep jumping for how ever many hours. Well anyway I was taking a few shots and this guy on crutches with one leg comes past. I can imagine the shot now but didn't react in time. It would've been oh so wrong but a shocking/provocative/great photo all the same.

EDIT: I only just noticed your post rcoda, strange haha

 

[jamusu]

Wanted to write a lengthy post here, but decided against it. To make a long story short: Had you asked the guy and the lady in a friendly way, you might have gotten the perfect shot. Talking people into stuff like this, however, is an art in itself. If you like photographs like this, you've got to learn that talking thing just like mastering your camera.

Ralf.

Normally that is what I do, and normally the results are great, but for this shot I did not want to compromise the realness of it. Also, I have yet to mention this, but I am pretty sure the guy knew I was taking photos of him. He at times would look directly at me and smile and then continue reading his book.

Also, I had no chance to ask the woman because she basically bolted as soon as I lifted the viewfindeer to my eye. At that point the shot was comprised just as it would have beenhad I asked.

As stated previously, this was the first and only time that I have taken photos of people without their permission in my two years as an amateur photographer.

Feel free to write as much as you want the next time. I would love to read more of what you have to say.

Jamusu.

 

[jamusu]

Alden.

Nice documentary shots. When were they taken if you do not mind my asking.

Jamusu.

 

[Rob Skeoch]

Sorry for hi-jacking the tread....

To Jamusu,

You were asking about shooting for Doctors Without Borders.

I never came upon a situation where I didn't take photos for them, but it could come up if I shot for them longer. Most of the pictures I did were of doctors working at clinics or people who were attending the clinics. In Cambodia most of the injuries were related to land mines but I wasn't there when an injured person in real rough shape came in.

One time while shooting at the hospital in Gonaives in north Haiti I passed on the chance to shoot in the leper wing of the hospital.... I found the regular wards rough enough. I think the shoot was for International Child Care not DWB. I found the work in Haiti much tougher to do than in Cambodia.... of course in Haiti I felt sick most of the time myself so that might have something to do with it.
-rob

 

[Paul Howell]

When taking pictures of people I ask the myself "is this news worthy," unless it is news worthy I always ask. I think public events like rodeos, sporting events, public demonstrations where the person has no reasonable expectation of privacy are fair game. Other wise how would you feel having your picture taken not knowing how it going to be used? The shot of the African American and older white woman, you could be a neonatzi and the shot could be captioned "What is this city coming to".


The one shot that got away that I still think about was a silly shot, early 1970s, Newport Beach Ca. A small pick up truck had a load of fire wood stacked as a pyramid, sitting on top was full size St. Barnard, holding on for life and limb, the truck was traveling in the opposite direction that I was driving, I turned around, caught up and got one frame with my Konica T and 55mm. Got back to my parents who I was visiting, no film. I think the shot was fair game as no persons were identifiable.

 

[Alden]

After photographing for a solid week in Sienna, Italy, I told myself that I was ridiculous and obsessive, and that I needed to break free of this looking thru a camera thing and just be a part of life. I left all the cameras, even the Yashica T4, in the room, and went to do my laundry. Just a wet overcast dark day anyway. As I approached the laundromat, there was a steep ascent in the cobblestone road before me. The rainclouds parted just enough to bring a strong silky light out just above the hill, that turned the cobblestones silver. On top of that the road came down towards me and then formed a broad circle of the stones, and people were descending with black umbrellas, tiny, like milkweed seeds aloft. A silver spoon with human seeds. Oh well, I saw it, and that is maybe something greater than a trophy filed away.

 

[jamusu]

Paul.

Point well taken. I thought it to be extremely news worthy. It was my plan to tell the both of them after I had already taken the image. It would not have worked had I asked before hand. I would have informed them how it would have been used, and hoped that they gave me permission to use it. I was wondering what I would have used to get their approval considering the fact that I have yet to print out any consent forms. I guess I need to get around to doing that huh?

Strange it is how many thoughts ran through my head during such a short period of time.

Jamusu.

 

[davela]

I went through security at Terminal 5 at LAX today right behind Tommy Lee and a groupyish looking chick of some sort traveling with him -- the famous rocker (you know). The place was swarming with Paparazzi's and their fancy Canon DLSR's with long lenses, but they couldn't get past the metal detectors since they didn't have tickets like me! Like the other travelers, I was amused, but I completely forgot that I had a loaded Petri SLR and a loaded Bessa R rangefinder in my back pack and that I DID get through security with him!

BTW this sort of thing is not uncommon in LA, especially at the airport.

 

[Paul Howell]

Paul.

Point well taken. I thought it to be extremely news worthy.

What made this shot news worthy? An older woman sitting at the same table in a town library as an African American, do you have a time machine? Certainly not breaking or hard news, even as a feature story I dont see the point? From an artistic point of view I can see some merit but not as news.

 

[jamusu]

Paul.

Yes I do have a time machine. One that has been documented and cannot be changed no matter how hard we as human beings try. HISTORY.

Had I captured the image, it would have been a reflection of both the past and present with glimpses of what hopefully is to come in the future; racial equality. I live in Little Rock, Arkansas. I do not know if you are aware of it, but we just celebrated the 50th anniversary of the Little Rock Nine. The story made headline news during the time because nine black kids were denied entrance into Little Rock Central High School because of the color of their skin. These events, how ever sad they may be live on through images captured by photographers, making them history. It is by history that we are able to travel back in time to learn from both positive and negative moments assuring that we better ourselves as a society.

Sadly, many of the beliefs that prevailed during that time are still prominent, but not to the same extent. Things are much better now, as evident by the image had I captured it. As I stated earlier, the two of them were wearing clothes from the 1960's and the 1970's. During this time blacks and whites did not intermingle much or at all for the most part. These were time periods when racial tensions were at their highest. To see the pair of them sitting so closely in 2008, but dressed in clothes from the 1960's and 1970's was ironic. Under no circumstances would a white woman in the 1960' sit so closely to a black man in a public library or anywhere else for the most part. They would have been segregated.

The picture would have been a merger of three different eras; 1960-1970-2008, an essay narratively reflecting the HUMAN DYNAMICS OF CHANGE in as Southern State marred by racial inequality in its much storied past. The black man and the white woman were not a reflection of race, but rather a reflection of two eras of racial inequality in the past, but has and is currently showing growth and progress in the present.

There are those in the world who do not understand the role that history plays on the HUMAN CONDITION and its many manifestations, or simply choose to ignore it. They tend to solely focus on how they feel it should be rather than how it has been in the past or is currently. Rather than expose it for what it is, they tend to act as though everything in the world runs smoothly, as if no problems exist or ever have.

History whether positive or negative is only a myth; a mere urban legend without proper documentation by those who have no biases. Is it not our charge as photographers, amateurs and pros alike to document the Human Condition and all of its manifestations in all its rawness as a means of bringing it to the masses. Can we call ourselves photographers were we to allow our lives to be governed by such false principalities; only photographing what we deem to be positive or good?

I think not. By doing so she/or he will have reduced themselves to someone who lugs a camera around capturing images that are merritless. Nothing less; nothing more; for their is no in between.

Do you now see the point?
Jamusu.

Paul.

Point well taken. I thought it to be extremely news worthy.

What made this shot news worthy? An older woman sitting at the same table in a town library as an African American, do you have a time machine? Certainly not breaking or hard news, even as a feature story I dont see the point? From an artistic point of view I can see some merit but not as news.

 

[walter23]

What about those shots that get away because you're an idiot and your film fixer was kaput? Fade to black..

 

[jamusu]

Or when you attempt to load a roll of film only to find that after opening the camera you had not yet unloaded the previous roll.

Jamusu.

 

[copake_ham]

Paul.

Point well taken. I thought it to be extremely news worthy.

What made this shot news worthy? An older woman sitting at the same table in a town library as an African American, do you have a time machine? Certainly not breaking or hard news, even as a feature story I dont see the point? From an artistic point of view I can see some merit but not as news.

Paul.

Yes I do have a time machine. One that has been documented and cannot be changed no matter how hard we as human beings try. HISTORY.

Had I captured the image, it would have been a reflection of both the past and present with glimpses of what hopefully is to come in the future; racial equality. I live in Little Rock, Arkansas. I do not know if you are aware of it, but we just celebrated the 50th anniversary of the Little Rock Nine. The story made headline news during the time because nine black kids were denied entrance into Little Rock Central High School because of the color of their skin. These events, how ever sad they may be live on through images captured by photographers, making them history. It is by history that we are able to travel back in time to learn from both positive and negative moments assuring that we better ourselves as a society.

Sadly, many of the beliefs that prevailed during that time are still prominent, but not to the same extent. Things are much better now, as evident by the image had I captured it. As I stated earlier, the two of them were wearing clothes from the 1960's and the 1970's. During this time blacks and whites did not intermingle much or at all for the most part. These were time periods when racial tensions were at their highest. To see the pair of them sitting so closely in 2008, but dressed in clothes from the 1960's and 1970's was ironic. Under no circumstances would a white woman in the 1960' sit so closely to a black man in a public library or anywhere else for the most part. They would have been segregated.

The picture would have been a merger of three different eras; 1960-1970-2008, an essay narratively reflecting the HUMAN DYNAMICS OF CHANGE in as Southern State marred by racial inequality in its much storied past. The black man and the white woman were not a reflection of race, but rather a reflection of two eras of racial inequality in the past, but has and is currently showing growth and progress in the present.

There are those in the world who do not understand the role that history plays on the HUMAN CONDITION and its many manifestations, or simply choose to ignore it. They tend to solely focus on how they feel it should be rather than how it has been in the past or is currently. Rather than expose it for what it is, they tend to act as though everything in the world runs smoothly, as if no problems exist or ever have.

History whether positive or negative is only a myth; a mere urban legend without proper documentation by those who have no biases. Is it not our charge as photographers, amateurs and pros alike to document the Human Condition and all of its manifestations in all its rawness as a means of bringing it to the masses. Can we call ourselves photographers were we to allow our lives to be governed by such false principalities; only photographing what we deem to be positive or good?

I think not. By doing so she/or he will have reduced themselves to someone who lugs a camera around capturing images that are merritless. Nothing less; nothing more; for their is no in between.

Do you now see the point?
Jamusu.

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I have to agree with Paul.

The "we are all together, we are one" shots stopped being newsworthy in the 1960s

I took this one in 1979 on a visit to SF - and it was then, and is now, quite banal.

BTW: Wasn't the K-chrome 64 great? I scanned this a year ago (so almost a thirty year old slide) in RAW. I had to downsize it and convert to web-based JPEG to post here - but still the K-chrome quality remains!

 

[Ross Chambers]

Dear Jamusu,

As you expand on the story I believe that I acted without understanding and sensitivity. I'm a long way from the history of race relations in the USA, but unfortunately closer to our own frictions in this area.

I apologise for my hasty criticism, I can only offer my dislike of intrusive photographers as a limp rationale.

I hope that you can continue to seek a way of reconciling the peoples of the messy democracy of America by way of your camera.

Regards - Ross

 

[Paul Howell]

Paul.

Yes I do have a time machine. One that has been documented and cannot be changed no matter how hard we as human beings try. HISTORY.

Had I captured the image, it would have been a reflection of both the past and present with glimpses of what hopefully is to come in the future; racial equality. I live in Little Rock, Arkansas. I do not know if you are aware of it, but we just celebrated the 50th anniversary of the Little Rock Nine. The story made headline news during the time because nine black kids were denied entrance into Little Rock Central High School because of the color of their skin. These events, how ever sad they may be live on through images captured by photographers, making them history. It is by history that we are able to travel back in time to learn from both positive and negative moments assuring that we better ourselves as a society.

Sadly, many of the beliefs that prevailed during that time are still prominent, but not to the same extent. Things are much better now, as evident by the image had I captured it. As I stated earlier, the two of them were wearing clothes from the 1960's and the 1970's. During this time blacks and whites did not intermingle much or at all for the most part. These were time periods when racial tensions were at their highest. To see the pair of them sitting so closely in 2008, but dressed in clothes from the 1960's and 1970's was ironic. Under no circumstances would a white woman in the 1960' sit so closely to a black man in a public library or anywhere else for the most part. They would have been segregated.

The picture would have been a merger of three different eras; 1960-1970-2008, an essay narratively reflecting the HUMAN DYNAMICS OF CHANGE in as Southern State marred by racial inequality in its much storied past. The black man and the white woman were not a reflection of race, but rather a reflection of two eras of racial inequality in the past, but has and is currently showing growth and progress in the present.

There are those in the world who do not understand the role that history plays on the HUMAN CONDITION and its many manifestations, or simply choose to ignore it. They tend to solely focus on how they feel it should be rather than how it has been in the past or is currently. Rather than expose it for what it is, they tend to act as though everything in the world runs smoothly, as if no problems exist or ever have.

History whether positive or negative is only a myth; a mere urban legend without proper documentation by those who have no biases. Is it not our charge as photographers, amateurs and pros alike to document the Human Condition and all of its manifestations in all its rawness as a means of bringing it to the masses. Can we call ourselves photographers were we to allow our lives to be governed by such false principalities; only photographing what we deem to be positive or good?

I think not. By doing so she/or he will have reduced themselves to someone who lugs a camera around capturing images that are merritless. Nothing less; nothing more; for their is no in between.

Do you now see the point?
Jamusu.

It is an essay and a social comment but not news, as such you need to at least inform the subjects of the your intention, and perhaps a model release as well.

 

[jamusu]

quote=copake ham

I have to agree with Paul.

The "we are all together, we are one" shots stopped being newsworthy in the 1960s

I took this one in 1979 on a visit to SF - and it was then, and is now, quite banal.

BTW: Wasn't the K-chrome 64 great? I scanned this a year ago (so almost a thirty year old slide) in RAW. I had to downsize it and convert to web-based JPEG to post here - but still the K-chrome quality remains![/QUOTE]

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==========================================================

Copake-Ham.

I take it you've never lived in the South?

Also, if your assumption were true, then tell me why the United States of America is in an uproar due to the fact that is seems as though for the first time their is a legitimate chance of a black man being the president of our country?

Are those images newsworthy? What are their significance?

Jamusu




[

 

[Paul Howell]

quote=copake ham

I have to agree with Paul.

The "we are all together, we are one" shots stopped being newsworthy in the 1960s

I took this one in 1979 on a visit to SF - and it was then, and is now, quite banal.

BTW: Wasn't the K-chrome 64 great? I scanned this a year ago (so almost a thirty year old slide) in RAW. I had to downsize it and convert to web-based JPEG to post here - but still the K-chrome quality remains!

==========================================================
==========================================================

Copake-Ham.

I take it you've never lived in the South?

Also, if your assumption were true, then tell me why the United States of America is in an uproar due to the fact that is seems as though for the first time their is a legitimate chance of a black man being the president of our country?

Are those images newsworthy? What are their significance?

Jamusu

I lived in Altanta in 1964 for one year, the worse year of my life, including 3 tours in Southeast Asia. I was a high school junior, my father worked for Lockheed and was assigned to to work in Georgia on the C5A, I grew up in Wilmington the port of Los Angles which was very racily mixed. Although white the civil rights movement was in full swing and I was considered to be a "n*****" lover and had my life threatened, almost, daily. My last visit to Altanta a couple of year ago was most remarkable to me. A black man running for president is one thing, two people of different races sitting at a table in a libary is another. If the shot is to be part of a photo essay comparing Little Rock 1964 with 2008 merging old photos and events with new photos it may be interesting and news worthy.

But then again what is news worthy is up the the editor.

 

[jamusu]

Paul.

That is more on the lines of what I was referring to. It would have been a good image to capture for those very reasons. I also agree with what you said about the model release. I did not have time to ask. In fact I have never made any, because as stated earlier, this was the first time that I had ever done such a thing.

It was my intent to capture the image and inform them that I had done so immediately afterwards in the hope that they would have allowed me to keep it. I then would have written up a model release and had them to sign it. Had either of the pair of them said no, I would have sadly destroyed that particular negative as a means of not being tempted to print the image any way. It would have been the ethical thing to do. So I believe.

Thank you for your post's. They have been an extreme pleasure to read.

Jamusu.

 

[copake_ham]

quote=copake ham

I have to agree with Paul.

The "we are all together, we are one" shots stopped being newsworthy in the 1960s

I took this one in 1979 on a visit to SF - and it was then, and is now, quite banal.

BTW: Wasn't the K-chrome 64 great? I scanned this a year ago (so almost a thirty year old slide) in RAW. I had to downsize it and convert to web-based JPEG to post here - but still the K-chrome quality remains!

==========================================================
==========================================================

Copake-Ham.

I take it you've never lived in the South?

Also, if your assumption were true, then tell me why the United States of America is in an uproar due to the fact that is seems as though for the first time their is a legitimate chance of a black man being the president of our country?

Are those images newsworthy? What are their significance?

Jamusu




[[/QUOTE]

Well, first off, you are correct. I have never lived in The South. However, my wife is a Greek-American from Memphis, so I've visited The South many times.

Second of all, my late father-in-law was a city councilman in Memphis and once ran for Congress. He lost to Harold Ford, Sr. when Ford was first elected. My f-in-law NEVER played the race card in that election. In fact, as a councilman at large - he used to bring his family to various black churches on Sundays. Despite the fact he was fiscally very conservative - he actively sought and obtained the black vote. He served on council from the late 1960's to the early-1990's a period during which Memphis went from majority white to majority black. He was never defeated in any council election.

Third of all, I do not detect any "uproar" in the US about the fact that Barak Obama is a viable candidate for President. Hell, the man just raised $12 million for his campaign in the last 9 days and this afternoon received an endorsement from a major labor union!

In fact, as a lifelong Democrat and Hillary Clinton supporter, I am quite concerned that Obama may actually get nominated. Only to be "shredded" in the General Election. Not because he's black - but because he's inexperienced and just too damned "nice".

If the Republicans were able to "swift boat" a war hero like John Kerry - imagine what they can do to an ingenue like Obama! One "incident" in the Strait of Hormuz in October and Obama's inexperience will scare the voters straight to the Republican candidate. [And don't doubt that Bush can "create" such an incident - the "October surprise" is an well-known political tactic.]

Frankly, it seems to me that you are still stuck in the 20th C. and trying to create images of a time now past.

If you really want to chronicle change in The South right now - focus on the rising Hispanic population. And deal with the fact that many Southern blacks are antagonistic toward the influx of Hispanics. Show us Southern blacks overcoming their prejudices against immigrant Hispanics - that's a story if it's there.

To put things into a photographic metaphor - you are still looking at society in "black and white". But these days, it's a colorful mosaic. And as society becomes increasingly diverse - you need a more complex scorecard than the one you've been using.

 

[Cheryl Jacobs]

I've read some of this thread (although I'll confess to skimming at times.) I'm just going to make a very quick comment.

I don't often photograph people who are unaware, but I do when I feel it tells a valuable story. I personally wouldn't use "newsworthiness" as my standard, because "news" is such a misnomer in our society. I don't see Paris Hilton's release from prison as "news" and I wouldn't want to photograph it, as it doesn't tell any sort of valuable story to me at all. I would have seen Jamusu's (almost) photograph as telling a valuable story.

I think we're very quick to equate candid and/or street photography with paparazzi. It seems when modern photographers photograph people "on the sly" it's looked down upon, but I don't see such criticism of Elliot Erwitt's work. And I don't believe his image of a tiny dog sitting under a very fat woman's chair as being "newsworthy."

- CJ

 

[Cheryl Jacobs]

To put things into a photographic metaphor - you are still looking at society in "black and white". But these days, it's a colorful mosaic. And as society becomes increasingly diverse - you need a more complex scorecard than the one you've been using.

I find this statement interesting. I question one person instructing another as to what their view of society should be. Why must Jamusu find a "more complex scorecard"? I would think that as photographers we would be encouraging each other to shoot according to their own views of society and art, not telling them which views they should have. You really have to take into account that a person's views on society are highly unique to their individual life experiences.

Let's not pass judgment on people for their views on society.

- CJ

 

[copake_ham]

I find this statement interesting. I question one person instructing another as to what their view of society should be. Why must Jamusu find a "more complex scorecard"? I would think that as photographers we would be encouraging each other to shoot according to their own views of society and art, not telling them which views they should have. You really have to take into account that a person's views on society are highly unique to their individual life experiences.

Let's not pass judgment on people for their views on society.

- CJ

Well, yes, Cheryl, certainly that's the case if it's a "personal vision".

But the point here is the claim that it is a PJ commentary of "newsworthiness".

Frankly, it doesn't seem to be very "newsworthy" to show a picture of a black person sitting at a table reading next to a white person sitting at the same table reading.

Heck, you can go to a shopping mall just about anywhere on a Saturday afternoon and find a pic like that. So, where is the "newsworthiness"?

As Paul said, it's practically a "set shot" that you should ask for a model release!

Please don't misunderstand my point here. I don't doubt the personal vision sincerity of Jamusu's picture of racial harmony (or at least, racial tolerance). I just don't find it to be a "newsworthy" photo in 2008.

It's kind of "been there, done that" with such photos. Even in The South, juxtapositions of whites and blacks engaged in similar pursuits next to each other is not "newsworthy".

EDIT: The very fact that Barak Obama is a viable candidate for President is a testament to how "not newsworthy" Jamusu's picture is!

 

[cao]

As Paul said, it's practically a "set shot" that you should ask for a model release!

Why? Have things changed appreciably since the dismissal of Erno Nussenzweig's appeal against Philip-Lorca DiCorcia?

I thought, though welcome a correction, that only commercial use required a release.

For what it's worth, I am a street shooter among other things, and I make a strong distinction between photographing a person and photographing a moment. You can never get permission to photograph a moment, as it has passed already.

 

[Cheryl Jacobs]

George, and as I mentioned above, I don't find celebrity comings and goings interesting, but that stuff is plastered all over every news network. So who is really the judge of "newsworthiness"?

I was once told by a local radio station that a photographic project I was working on was completely "unnewsworthy" and I was wasting my time trying to get publicity for it. The next day, the local news picked up the story of the project and ran a major story on the 6:00 news.

"Newsworthy" is just as ambiguous a term as "artistic." Let each photograph what they feel is important, without going on at length about why you feel it isn't.

- CJ