The never-ending bellows fabric question

Curt · Nov 20, 2009

J0B00 said:
Dead Link Removed

I called this place and apparently they have a 2-ply .012" thick black cotton cloth with a rubber coating in the middle that they say is 100% light tight and can also be used to make camera bellows, as well...its just not listed on the website. Its approx $35 a lineal yard and is 60" wide. I'm going to get some for a couple of Whole Plate walnut wet-plate cameras I'm making. If things turn out right, I'll have burgundy fabric on the outside which I think will look dandy with the dark walnut.

Andy

When I contacted them a month ago they said they actually supply material for bellows to companies, not stated, but they said the hides would need a second layer for light tight results. They have hides that are very thin and would look very nice.

J0B00 · Nov 24, 2009

I'm not talking about the hides... I don't want or need a leather bellows... I was referring more to the rubber coated cotton fabric. They do have some thin sheepskin that I use for covering tintype cases though....

Dan Dozer · Nov 24, 2009

I've made numerous bellows for large format cameras and have tried several different materials before. Initially I found a very thin artifical leather at one of the big fabric store chains. However, most of it that is now available is too thick to use affectively.

While I was fully aware of the more expensive fabrics like the one that Porter's used to have, I was always looking at ways to keep the cost down.

The last couple of years, I've been using opaque drapery liner fabric from the local fabric store. It's pretty inexpensive and is pretty thin also. Problem is that it's normally white so you will need to paint it flat black if you are using it on the inside of your bellows (pretty simple to do). For the outside, I normally use a simple black eqyptian cotton cloth. This combination seems to work fine for bellows that are for cameras 8 x 10 and larger. For 4 x 5 and smaller, your bellows thickness when fully folded is more critical because the camera is smaller, so the thickness of both materials plus the bellows stays (if you use them) in between is all important. If the material that JOBBO incates above is readily available, I would definitely try that route if your are looking at 4 x 5.

Curt · Nov 24, 2009

J0B00 said:
I'm not talking about the hides... I don't want or need a leather bellows... I was referring more to the rubber coated cotton fabric. They do have some thin sheepskin that I use for covering tintype cases though....

Oh, sorry for the additional information I received from talking with the company representative. You may not want or need a leather bellows but someone else might be interested.

Venchka · Nov 24, 2009

Ty,

You might give these folks a call. They are nearby.

venchka said:
This company comes recommended as a place that stocks a LOT of fabric. Somebody here or at APUG was asking about bellows fabric recently. I am not a customer. I am only the messenger.

Wherehouse Fabrics, 2675 Perth St, Dallas, 75220 214-352-4908

If you find a solution, I have a Linhof Technika V that might need bellows someday.

Good luck!

freygr · Nov 26, 2009

For Leather Bellows look at Pneumatic Leather ( it's thin and without pin wholes). Unluckily all the links are on a difference computer :-(

Mike1234 · Nov 26, 2009

You can copy your links from one computer to another.

Venchka · Nov 26, 2009

Crazy wild shot in the dark: Gore makes a lightweight triple layer laminate material. It's used in all manner of outdoor garments. IF, big IF, the fabric is lightproof and thin enough, it may work. Adding a thin liner could finish the lightproofing.

It's an idea. I never said it was a good idea.

J0B00 · Dec 3, 2009

I just ordered some of the .012" 2-ply "Motor Cloth" from Leather Supply House... I'm in the process of making 2 6.5" x 8.5" Walnut Wet-Plate cameras and will give it a run on those. It wasn't extremely cheap, but given that I paid ~$65 for enough to make 2 bellows, thats not too bad I don't think.

As soon as I have the material in hand, I'll post more info, as well as photos.

J0B00 · Dec 15, 2009

Well, I recieved the item from Leather Supply House, and it is EXACTLY what I wanted. It is thin, flexible, black, and COMPLETELY lightproof. It's a 2-ply laminate package of black cotton broadcloth that has black rubber sandwiched in between. I can see this stuff being used for shutter curtains too, although at .012" thickness it may be slightly too thick. Given that it is so perfect, I think I'm going to cover my bellows with some burdundy twill on the outside since I don't have to worry about light sneaking thru. The stuff is DARK - - It doesn't even glow when put 2 inches from a 100 watt lightbulb. I highly recommend it, although 1.5 yards was $86 after shipping...a bit pricey.

BTW, to get the stuff I ordered, you have to call because it isn't listed on their website. Ask for the .012" 2-ply "Motor Cloth".

CRhymer · Dec 17, 2009

Hello J0B00,

Did you talk to Mike? I have tried to contact them by email and telephone, just recently, and I have not got a response. I am wondering if they have shut down for the holiday season, or perhaps are swamped by the accordion repair crowd rushing to get gifts for holiday delivery. It's only been a couple of days, but it seems odd not to hear back.

Cheers,
Clarence

J0B00 · Dec 18, 2009

I believe that was the guy's name... I'm not sure if they are closed for the holidays or not, but it is very possible. From what I can gather, they are kind of a mom & pop operation, and its possible they went on a trip somewhere. I called them at about 2PM central time and the answering machine picked up at the same time he did... it's possible he is busy elsewhere in the shop and can't get to the phone. Keep trying and you'll get ahold of them sooner or later.

Roger Thoms · Jan 8, 2010

Just curious, has anyone contacted Camera Essentials about the possible of buying fabric. I just bought a Harrison film changing tent and the fabric looks like it might be good for bellows.
Roger

reefman77 · Mar 10, 2010

http://www.porters.com/black-out-opaque-plastic-cloth-48-x-16-ft-roll.html

is this the famous porters blackout cloth? even if its not, think it will still work?

Colin Graham · Mar 11, 2010

reefman77 said:
http://www.porters.com/black-out-opaque-plastic-cloth-48-x-16-ft-roll.html

is this the famous porters blackout cloth? even if its not, think it will still work?

Sadly they discontinued the good nylon/rubber laminated stuff. That looks like some sort of poly sheeting or visqueen.

J0B00 said:
Well, I recieved the item from Leather Supply House, and it is EXACTLY what I wanted. It is thin, flexible, black, and COMPLETELY lightproof. It's a 2-ply laminate package of black cotton broadcloth that has black rubber sandwiched in between. I can see this stuff being used for shutter curtains too, although at .012" thickness it may be slightly too thick. Given that it is so perfect, I think I'm going to cover my bellows with some burdundy twill on the outside since I don't have to worry about light sneaking thru. The stuff is DARK - - It doesn't even glow when put 2 inches from a 100 watt lightbulb. I highly recommend it, although 1.5 yards was $86 after shipping...a bit pricey.

BTW, to get the stuff I ordered, you have to call because it isn't listed on their website. Ask for the .012" 2-ply "Motor Cloth".

Look forward to hearing how it works out. Thanks.

sv@diycamerakit.com · Apr 28, 2010

I am offering a .015" bellows material that is 100% light proof for $2.50 a sq foot. That would be about $10 for a 4x5, $25 for a 6x8, $40 for an 8x10 if anyone is still interested. See the website linked below. I'm also offering DIY Bellows Kits if you want to make it easier.

Ian Grant · May 18, 2010

Any suggestions for a UK supplier ?

Just about to make some bellows for a quarter plate camera and the original appears to have been made from bookbinders cloth.

ian

panastasia · May 18, 2010

Ty G said:
Leather is not a good route to go if you are relying on that being your "lightproof" layer. Leather has lots of very small pinholes that tend to enlarge a little as time goes on. Now if you have a good inside layer, it is very nice looking.[/QUOTE]

Columbia Organ Leathers has some thin (.008") leather, leather glue, etc. leathers:http://www.columbiaorgan.com/col/

jnoir · May 18, 2010

panastasia said:
Columbia Organ Leathers has some thin (.008") leather, leather glue, etc.

I have bought some pieces from them, but on it holes are visible, upon simple inspection against a lamp or the sun reveals lots of micro-holes that I bet will increase their size as time goes by.

Chriscc123 · May 19, 2010

you could try a fabric of you choice, and then layer 2-4 layers of duck tape on it. it might work.

Ian Grant · May 19, 2010

Chriscc123 said:
you could try a fabric of you choice, and then layer 2-4 layers of duck tape on it. it might work.

Welcome to APUG Chris

I've found some ideal fabric at under £4 ($6) per metre/1.3 metres wide.

While not light tight two layers are close. Impregnating it with acrylic paint makes a single layer totally light tight while retaining good flexibilty, and I've used the same technique in the past to repair and also make shutter cloths for Speed Graphic and Thornton Pickard shutters so I know it stands up to wear & use.

The cloth is very similar to the one used by Camera Bellows (now custom Bellows) when they made me some bag bellows for my De Vere monorail.

Now I can make the three sets of bellows I need from the first metre which with glue, acrylic paint & card is a material cost of under £10 ($15) for the 3.

Ian

Chriscc123 · May 20, 2010

Thanks for the welcome, anyway, just as a side note, you could always try gorilla tape for better effect, its actually thicker, and has what i suspect is a coat of vinyl on it, and its black.

nick mulder · May 20, 2010

I've made bellows with .6mm leather outer for around 5x7" and above - completely light proof as a single layer held up to the sun with my eyes adjusted for darkness... I'm off to a leather merchant today, I'll make sure I try out some thinner non-black stuff see if I can spot these holes ...

I have found leather at 0.4mm but it was kangaroo hide which didn't have the size I needed... I like hiding the seam on the bottom but with a two part bellows it'll either be on top or both sides...

I use any ol' nice quality satin for the interior, cheap, thin and low light reflectivity.

NormanV · May 20, 2010

I have recently made two sets of bellows (just for the fun of it) for a 5 x 7 camera that I might build sometime soon. I used curtain blackout material for the outer layer, 160gsm paper for the stiffeners and black cotton fabric for the inner liner. 17 folds works out at 65mm. Not the thinnest of materials but ok in the size I want. The only problem that I have not sorted out is the colour. The curtain blackout is white, a white bellows has a certain atraction but if I do decide to paint it I need to find a flexible paint and then the biggest problem all, what colour?

Ian Grant · May 21, 2010

My experience restoring shutter curtains is that the acrylic paint (Reeves) that I use is very flexible. I strip the original flaky coatings off the shutter curtains then impregnate the cloth from both sides wiping off excess, that's enough to fully light proof it and it won't flake off.

I may try making some Ruby red bellows and will try matching the cloth colour to the Reeves acrylic paint which is available in a range of colours. A large tube is £4/$6 US, but the smaller one is probably more than enough for a couple of 5x4 bellows.

Ian

The never-ending bellows fabric question

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