The Necessities: A look into a 4x5 photographer.

[pdjr1991]

what kind of experience are you wondering about ...

loading paper and film ?
camera movements ?
making portraits ?
offloading and processing ?
making mistakes ?
making prints ?
pneumericalizing your negative ?
focusing ?

i wouldn't consider myself a landscape photographer , but a generalist ...
i make portraits on commission, photograph buildings and sites on commission,
and document whatever i can, whenever i can ... sometimes with a large camera, sometimes
with a small camera ...

the most difficult thing i have had to overcome regarding using large format photography is the ease of
forgetting to stop down the lens, or close the shutter after focusing ... and loading the film in the holders
the right way.

other than that it is almost easier than 35mm or digitroll, or a medium format camera ...

if you are a little more specific, you
could probably find a few months worth of reading material by using a keyword search
here on apug and on the large format site ... apug has been around for nearly 10 years
and the large format page for well over a decade ..


have fun !
john

Yep this is what im looking for! Everybody does things differently and i would like to here it. For example some people put a shutter release adapter on all their lenses, some people may like the plastic film holders or hate it. Some people may have tips they've discovered along the way. Some people have an item that they absolutley couldn't do without. i would like to hear any of these.

 

[pdjr1991]

From seeing posts of yours in the past you seem to get quite a bit of information from the people at APUG. What do you think you are not getting? I'm sincerely confused and frustrated too. I'd like to help you. You seem like a nice person but what EXACTLY do you want to know? The qeustions you asked in this thread are answered somewhere else. I told you where to go get that information but you seem to only want to learn in exactly the format you expect.

If you just want to hear other people's life story in LF, then you will continue to be frustrated.

Why don't you tell us about YOU and what you want to accomplish with LF. I'd like to hear about your high school reporting days, and your experiences now in college. If I had a clue as to what you are doing, have done, and want to do then maybe I could tell you about some of my experiences that are relevant. I doubt you really want to know about some of the stuff I did photographically in the past since it likely has no relevance to waht you might want to do!

As my wife always says, "sometimes you need to give a little [information] to get a little."

I'm not expecting a life story lol. just the life story of their part in 4x5

 

[pdjr1991]

From seeing posts of yours in the past you seem to get quite a bit of information from the people at APUG. What do you think you are not getting? I'm sincerely confused and frustrated too. I'd like to help you. You seem like a nice person but what EXACTLY do you want to know? The qeustions you asked in this thread are answered somewhere else. I told you where to go get that information but you seem to only want to learn in exactly the format you expect.

If you just want to hear other people's life story in LF, then you will continue to be frustrated.

Why don't you tell us about YOU and what you want to accomplish with LF. I'd like to hear about your high school reporting days, and your experiences now in college. If I had a clue as to what you are doing, have done, and want to do then maybe I could tell you about some of my experiences that are relevant. I doubt you really want to know about some of the stuff I did photographically in the past since it likely has no relevance to waht you might want to do!

As my wife always says, "sometimes you need to give a little [information] to get a little."

OK makes sense. in this case you mentioned you also owned a cambo and graphic. What do you like about it? what don't you like about it? Do you find you use the movements on the cambo alot? what lens do you have on it? thanks for the help!

 

[BrianShaw]

OK makes sense. in this case you mentioned you also owned a cambo and graphic. What do you like about it? what don't you like about it? Do you find you use the movements on the cambo alot? what lens do you have on it? thanks for the help!

In order of your questions:

1. I already own them. Thats what I like the best. I bought them because they offered the features I wanted at a decent price. Also because they are both "systems" and accessories are easily and affordably available. One is good for studio and limited field work; the other is good for handheld and field work.
2. There is nothing I don't like about either camera... except may be that I don't get to use them enough.
3. I don't use movements much. Mostly rise/fall to adjust framing for portraits. Other movements in moderation for architecture.
4. On Cambo boards: 135, 210, and 5.6/90 Schneider Symmar MC, Fujinon 250 SF, and Kodak Commercial Ektar 12 inch. 135 Optar on SuperGraphic. 135 Kodak Anastagmat for Anniversary Graphic. Also on boards for use on Anniversary Graphic are Optar 135 with Graphex X shutter, Kodak anastigmat #32 in barrel, and Gundlach Radar 5x7 in barrel.
5. Flashbulbs for the graphics using Graflite flash holders.

 

[ic-racer]

Most difficult problems with 4x5:
1) Getting even development
2) Focusing wide angle lenses at infinity and zeroing the camera detents
3) Keeping dust off the un-exposed negative
4) Figuring out spurious light leak problems

 

[pdjr1991]

Thanks! anybody have experience developing 4x5 with a tank?

 

[redrockcoulee]

I develop my 4X5 in a HP Combi tank and I have 5 clear plastic containers that film hangers fit into for 5X7. It is a bit of a hassle as need to do in the dark for the 5X7. I went through several cameras before I go the one I have now, little regrets doing so as did not lose money and learned stuff on the way. For example what I did not like about the Crown Graphic was the pain in shooting in portrait mode.

Started off with a 5X7 with a 4X5 reducing back without the internet, books or knowing anyone who shoot one. In fact bought the first one on a visit to California and shot out in the desert not having a clue what I was doing.

All this I could have posted on the large format list which has many more experienced and inexperienced large format photographers on it than APUG. It has now been almost 18 years since I first tried it out and now have 3 lenses, a tripod (actually the tripod was bought for another purpose prior to LF) cloth, light meter, loupe (a birthday gift a couple of years ago), a borrowed light meter (thanks Ted) two cable releases, lots of film holders more than I need but the price was right, an enlarger, a bag and some film.

Unless you are looking for answers from people who tried it and abandoned it you will most likely get more answers on the large format forum as Brian and others have already suggested. Like most things in life it is easy to do, much harder to do well and some day I will get to that point. It is not my favourite format as medium format seems to be more my speed. Read and ask questions but mostly use the gear and decide what if anything else you need.

 

[Dan Fromm]

OK looks like i havn't really explained myself well...

You've explained yourself all too well. Further comments on that point deleted in the spirit of Happy New Year!

 

[removed account4]

you might look into i one of morgan's development systems
(they fit into a 35mm / 120 development tanks)
Dead Link Removed

they seem perfect !
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

good luck !

john

 

[munz6869]

My main problem with 5x4" is making boring pictures! Otherwise, I find the whole process delightfully ponderous and really only make as many mistakes as any other format, with the exception of leaving the lens cap on, which I reserve for rangefinders...

Marc!

 

[dasBlute]

- your most difficult challenges

after getting past the usual errors which still plague me, the challenge is to
be present in the moment in the field, not look for images, but see them,
a subtle distinction but true in my experience, it's all too easy to find yourself
going through the motions, taking the easy or 'expected' shot, making an
image because "you're there".

- worst or best purchases
worst: graphmatic film holder, HP Combi tank
best: canham 5x7, schneider 121mm lens.

- your camera and why you do or do not like it

I like the canham, despite it's quirks, because it sets up aligned and fairly rigid,
it keeps it's positions, it's movements are intuitive i.e. it's pretty easy to tilt/focus,
it's light and I can and have walked for miles with it, I can completely disassemble
it and clean it.

- what you photograph

I photograph what I love, I don't know what it is till I see it, it may be a rock
a tree, a path, some water, a chair, a hand railing worn from use, the scenes
are things I wish to celebrate.

- steps and precautions you take

keep the dust down when loading film [still refining this], keep the film holders and camera
as dust free as possible, make sure the lens is clean, meter lots of things in the scene,
to get a broader feel for the exposure [but still weight the shadows most in my assessment],
be conscious of elements at the edges, leave or exclude them on purpose, make sure the
camera is level, and the tripod solid, always check to make sure I've closed down the lens
before I test fire the shutter a few times, always wait for the wind and/or tripod
to settle, watch for lens flare opportunities

- your favorite film

the one I'm using at the time, most films today are staggeringly good and the least of my worries
but kodak and ilford mostly [that will surely change] : txp, tmy-2, fp4, hp5

- any advice landscape photographers?

relax, don't rush the scene, you'll never be in the same place/time again; take two exposures if you
really like an image [dust kills]; walk walk walk; put the equipment down and walk an area of interest,
drop your hat where you find the best spot and come back; I'm happy to get one good/great image in a
day's work; don't give up, it's always worth it just being in the field

all the best,
-Tim

 

[Dan Quan]

I think I see what your getting at. Techniques, workflow, habits, processes, whatever comes to mind that makes the whole thing flow better. Does this need to be limited to 4x5? I would like to hear from 8x10 shooters as well. Of course I can contribute some of my possibly dumb ideas and things I'm trying, for what its worth.

I tend to get tunnel vision when I start on a photo, to that end I like an organized work space, especially my fanny pack, but as much of whatever else too. And everything must go back in the same place.

As an example I've organized a few tools onto my camera:

 

[pdjr1991]

you might look into i one of morgan's development systems
(they fit into a 35mm / 120 development tanks)
Dead Link Removed

they seem perfect !
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

good luck !

john

i forgot about morgan's reel! ill have to get me one of these. anybody have any experience with it?

 

[pdjr1991]

I think I see what your getting at. Techniques, workflow, habits, processes, whatever comes to mind that makes the whole thing flow better. Does this need to be limited to 4x5? I would like to hear from 8x10 shooters as well. Of course I can contribute some of my possibly dumb ideas and things I'm trying, for what its worth.

I tend to get tunnel vision when I start on a photo, to that end I like an organized work space, especially my fanny pack, but as much of whatever else too. And everything must go back in the same place.

As an example I've organized a few tools onto my camera:

ive been selfish to confine it to 4x5, guess we should expand. Maybe ill get bit by the 8x10 bug! BTW neat idea on concentrating some tools directly on your camera.

 

[pdjr1991]

Dan Quan, may i ask where you got the bipost to pc adapter? i might be looking for one soon.

 

[pdjr1991]

- your most difficult challenges

after getting past the usual errors which still plague me, the challenge is to
be present in the moment in the field, not look for images, but see them,
a subtle distinction but true in my experience, it's all too easy to find yourself
going through the motions, taking the easy or 'expected' shot, making an
image because "you're there".

- worst or best purchases
worst: graphmatic film holder, HP Combi tank
best: canham 5x7, schneider 121mm lens.

- your camera and why you do or do not like it

I like the canham, despite it's quirks, because it sets up aligned and fairly rigid,
it keeps it's positions, it's movements are intuitive i.e. it's pretty easy to tilt/focus,
it's light and I can and have walked for miles with it, I can completely disassemble
it and clean it.

- what you photograph

I photograph what I love, I don't know what it is till I see it, it may be a rock
a tree, a path, some water, a chair, a hand railing worn from use, the scenes
are things I wish to celebrate.

- steps and precautions you take

keep the dust down when loading film [still refining this], keep the film holders and camera
as dust free as possible, make sure the lens is clean, meter lots of things in the scene,
to get a broader feel for the exposure [but still weight the shadows most in my assessment],
be conscious of elements at the edges, leave or exclude them on purpose, make sure the
camera is level, and the tripod solid, always check to make sure I've closed down the lens
before I test fire the shutter a few times, always wait for the wind and/or tripod
to settle, watch for lens flare opportunities

- your favorite film

the one I'm using at the time, most films today are staggeringly good and the least of my worries
but kodak and ilford mostly [that will surely change] : txp, tmy-2, fp4, hp5

- any advice landscape photographers?

relax, don't rush the scene, you'll never be in the same place/time again; take two exposures if you
really like an image [dust kills]; walk walk walk; put the equipment down and walk an area of interest,
drop your hat where you find the best spot and come back; I'm happy to get one good/great image in a
day's work; don't give up, it's always worth it just being in the field

all the best,
-Tim

Thanks, i was thinking about getting the combi tank. what didn't you like about it? Dust is a pain! those plastic sheet film holders seem to be magnets. im wondering if some saran wrap might help. Anybody try fuji's 4x5 film, i like their 35mm so i wonder if ill like it in 4x5.

 

[pdjr1991]

My main problem with 5x4" is making boring pictures! Otherwise, I find the whole process delightfully ponderous and really only make as many mistakes as any other format, with the exception of leaving the lens cap on, which I reserve for rangefinders...

Marc!

i left the lens cap on once and have never done it since! BTW crossing my fingers...

 

[EASmithV]

I started out with a Pacemaker Speed Graphic and a 152mm lens. It was my grandfathers.

I picked up some film and started shooting. The collection rapidly expanded.

I used Taco Dev, and then Beseler print tubes, which I use to this day.

 

[pdjr1991]

I started out with a Pacemaker Speed Graphic and a 152mm lens. It was my grandfathers.

I picked up some film and started shooting. The collection rapidly expanded.

I used Taco Dev, and then Beseler print tubes, which I use to this day.

Heard about the taco dev and print tubes. I tried the taco with my first batch of 4x5 but my dev was old. ill have to try it again.

 

[Dan Quan]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/164971-REG/Paramount_PMBPPF_Female_PC_to_Bipost.html

Dan Quan, may i ask where you got the bipost to pc adapter? i might be looking for one soon.

B&H used department, but it's a paramount cord ( http://www.paramountcords.com/ ) and they are not altogether uncommon in used condition.

edit: actually, maybe I did buy it new: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/164971-REG/Paramount_PMBPPF_Female_PC_to_Bipost.html

 

[pdjr1991]

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/164971-REG/Paramount_PMBPPF_Female_PC_to_Bipost.html

B&H used department, but it's a paramount cord ( http://www.paramountcords.com/ ) and they are not altogether uncommon in used condition.

edit: actually, maybe I did buy it new: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/164971-REG/Paramount_PMBPPF_Female_PC_to_Bipost.html

thanks!

 

[RPippin]

Just to add a quick note to what everyone else has posted. I've tried lots of methods for developing and find that for the money, the BTZS tubes are the best. Also, check out the workshops at Photoworks in Glen Echo, they have lots of folks there who shoot large format and it's in Maryland. It's in the same state you are in, so hopefully it's close by. Nothing beats spending some face time with someone else with the same interest.

 

[L Gebhardt]

Thanks, i was thinking about getting the combi tank. what didn't you like about it?

The combiplan tank works well for me with some developers like XTOL, and very poorly with others such as Pyrocat HD. No idea why, but with Pyrocat I get very uneven development. I have gone back to using a Jobo with the 3010 Expert Drum. Perfectly even development every time.

As far as other equipment goes, here are a few thoughts:

I shoot mostly landscapes with 4x5, so keet that in mind. Get a camera that has movements. I started with a Speed Graphic, and it gave me nice 4x5 negatives. But I couldn't easily use front or rear tilt (I forget if it's impossible, or just very difficult). Once I got a more traditional view camera life got easier.

Get a camera that is easy to setup, and learn to do it without thinking about it. Practice while talking with people. Practice while not looking at the camera. Learn where all the locks are. You don't want to forget something when setting up quickly.

Get decent lenses with enough coverage. Space you focal lengths around a sensible theme. I really like a 135mm lens as my normal. So I went with about a 1.5 multiplier, e.g. 90, 135, 200, 300. Then you can develop an intuitive sense of how the angle of view will change when you change lenses.

Get a decent dark cloth and use it.

Get a decent loupe to check focus.

Use a Fresnel if you use wide angle lenses.

Buy film holders in good shape. Some old ones have dust that comes from the light traps.

Make your film loading area dust free.

Clean your film holders before loading.

Keep your film holders in dust free plastic bags when out in the field.

Use a cable release.

Block the wind from your camera.

Use a sturdy tripod and head.

Know your film. Test film speed based on your meter(s).

Use a spot meter (personal preference, I know others will disagree) for landscapes. Incident meters work well for portraiture and where you can get the meter into the scene.

Learn your films reciprocity characteristics, you will frequently need this if you work an dusk/dawn.

 

[papagene]

Concerning the HP Combi tank, I use it and have had very few problems with it... all due to (dumb) user errors. I got good negs from D76, T-Max dev, HC110 and PMK Pyro (both semi-stand and regular agitation). You just have to be patient when using the HP Combi.

For LF photography I use a Calumet Cadet (for both still life and some field photography), a Crown Graphic and a Kodak 2D 5x7 for field work. I have made almost all the normal mistakes and I still invent a few new ones. But I enjoy the LF process enough that mistakes don't matter... actually they are pretty funny!

I now need a pair of "Cheater" reading glasses to set up my cameras (so much fun getting old), but rely on a good loupe to check focus. My Bogen 3021 tripod is sturdy, even for the 5x7, and light enough to lug around hiking through the woods. Speaking of hiking through the woods, a good pair of hiking boots is a good investment.

After you get through reading all the advice you will get from this thread, I would suggest hanging out and photographing with other LF photogs. It will be one of the best ways to learn and gain experience. I can't say enough about my friendships with other APUGers here in New England.

 

[pdjr1991]

Just to add a quick note to what everyone else has posted. I've tried lots of methods for developing and find that for the money, the BTZS tubes are the best. Also, check out the workshops at Photoworks in Glen Echo, they have lots of folks there who shoot large format and it's in Maryland. It's in the same state you are in, so hopefully it's close by. Nothing beats spending some face time with someone else with the same interest.

more info on the tubes please! They have peaked my interest!