The "less silver in new Tri-X" myth

[Ole]

Things to note. Dmax is lower with matte papers than with glossy papers, even at the same silver. Development can change the tone of the image at equal silver quantity or it can change density up to the dmax limit.

The strange thing is that the blacks on matte papers, especially warm tone ones, can look "deeper" than on glossy papers with very much higher Dmax. Dmax isn't all!

 

[Photo Engineer]

A reply to notes on reflection Dmax.

Yes, matte papers can sometimes appear to have higher dmax than glossy, but when measured by reflection density they often appear lower. The reverse can also be true.

This is covered under a subject called goniophotometry, or measurement of light as a function of angle. Perception is different than measurement, but often coincides. The final result is that reflection densities are limited due to the light making multiple passes through the medium, wehreas in film there is only one pass. Often, I would measure density of prints in a standard MacBeth viewing box with a spot photometer at about 5 feet. I would then compare this with eyeball results and Status D densitometry.

The maximum I ever measured was in an Agfa color material with silicate inclusions in the surface coat, and it was 3.0, but subject to variation depending on humidity and whether it was rewet or referrotyped. The normal max is 1.8 - 2.2 for B&W and color materials with matte at the lower end of the scale and high gloss at the high end of the scale. The actual shoulder curve is based on silver content. The higher the silver, the higher the shoulder contrast, and the lower the silver, the lower the shoulder contrast.

PE

 

[Jeffery Smith]

Does anyone else find the new HC-110 dev time of 3.75 minutes a little short for Tri-X? I've gotten fairly good results with that, but I'm thinking of switching to a new developer as HC-110 doesn't work well on the slower films I like to use.

I don't try any times shorter than 5 minutes as I cannot get consistent results with such a brief development time.

 

[fhovie]

I used a lot of the old TRI-X and still am shooting some in 8x10. The new TRI-X is the most versitile film there is. It has very fine grain (almost as fine as TMY) and is the easist film to use for putting an SBR of 12 EV range on graded paper. It has lousy reciprocity characteristics - not a problem for frequent 10 second LF exposures but not as good as ASA 100 speed films for pinhole several minute or hour long exposures. (A pinhole shot of a room interior was spot on at 24 hours with TRI-X) TMY is a very good alternative to TRI-X in that it has great reciprocity and very very fine grain. It is not as good in pyro developers (Use XTOL (best), 510Pyro or PC-TEA at full film speed) and so I generally only use it for roll film. It is also easier to expand contrast ranges with TMY and with typical slower speed films. If I am shooting a very flat scene, I will usually choose TMY or FP4 where it is easy to move an SBR or 4 EV to fit the whole range of the paper. For landscape work - It is typically hard to beat TRI-X at ASA 200 with p'cat for anything from enlarging paper to AZO and to Kalitype density ranges.

TRI-X is better than it used to be.

 

[fwp]

I remember talking with someone at Kodak, and they told me that the short times like 2 3/4 and 3 1/2 development times were ok in a jobo because of the heavy agitation.

What are the thoughts on using TMAX RS developer?

-Corey

I use TMAX RS with TMX and am getting good results. To lengthen the development times I use a 5min prewash and dilute the developer 1:9.

 

[braxus]

I remember when one said less silver films had less density range, but I read above and it seem they may be wrong. I have used the 80-90s Tri-X and did like its luminous look. The shine one gets off faces when flash is used kind of look. I haven't seen that in the new film yet, but I'm not saying its not there. I have used quite a few rolls of the new Tri-X and do like it. I don't see this film disappearing anytime soon as its Kodaks best selling B&W film, even more so then T-Max. I never figured out exactly how to get that luminous shine look. It just happened in some of my shots. But aside I do like Efke 25 film even if it is a silver rich film.

 

[MikeSeb]

...what is the "right" developer?

For me, the answer is almost always Xtol in the Jobo. Tri-X looks stunning in 1:0 or 1:1 (a little more grain, still gorgeous); TMax or Delta in 1:2 or 1:3. When my current stock of Xtol runs out (soon), it's gonna be Mytol from here on out. Xtol/Mytol is my go-to developer.

I am also a big fan of divided D76, also in the Jobo; great tonal range, preserved highlight detail. It's damn near brainless to get great looking negatives. I've used the Formulary's version, and just mixed up the modified Vestal Divided D76H in The Film Developing Cookbook--waiting to try it.

I have recently experimented with PC-TEA, which looks promising but different--can't describe it well. I have also tried 510 Pyro, on which the jury is still out.