The Irrelevance of Beauty

[Sparky]

I don't know if it's too surprising - I don't think it has ANYTHING to do with talent - so much as what I'd call 'receptivity'. People expect certain phenomena (concert violin virtuosos notwithstanding) to occur in certain settings. No big surprise there! They see buskers as failed musicians who want money from them and are therefore not allowing themselves to hear beauty in the music - because it's not something they're expecting. Likewise - you could take a second rate musician, put them in Carnegie hall, hype them - and receive SOME acclaim. How on earth do you think Britney Spears made her millions.

 

[Sparky]

I think you're kind of proving your own dictum. Because you don't expect to see what you think of as 'great art' or 'great photography' to occur in a lightbox - you aren't allowing for the possibility. It's all about the context, right?

David

Thanks for the link. Makes me wonder what would happen if some of the leading modern photographers, whose images grace museums now, had to hang their work in subway stops instead.

I can imagine a Jeff Wall lightbox in an airport concourse next to all the other lightboxes advertising vacations, cell phones, and computers. NO ONE would notice.

Not that I think Jeff Wall's work can move people the way Joshua Bell can.

 

[patrickjames]

I have believed for some time that taste is something that people need to be told to have. If someone is a great musician/photographer who really will notice? I think that most people will need to be told how great something is before they can recognize it. This is also the reason why some works which are promoted as great art are successful even when they are not great art. I could go on and on about this, just from the things I have seen in my life, but I'll leave it at that.

Great story and beautiful music.

Patrick

 

[jovo]

This is also the reason why some works which are promoted as great art are successful even when they are not great art.

I am often bewildered by the 'art' that is declared by those who display and sell it to be 'great', or at least, significant. I don't always think so. I've decided that the real reason such work attains that stature is that it's lineage is recognizable to those who assimilate such stuff, and those folks understand its genesis from the influences of its progenitors. Because it fulfills their expectations of what should/ought to evolve as a next step, they feel vindicated in their taste. VERY human, I suppose, but mysterious to me.

 

[Sparky]

Well, Jovo - you can't please everyone all of the time, right?? Thank GOD we don't all like color photos of sunsets! An example of what you're talking about might be an edward weston photo that is an absolute piece of garbage - which I'M SURE he's done - but that fetches a price in the thousands or tens of thousands because of the name. But then again - it IS valuable in terms of it's art-historical lineage - perhaps to a gallery or to a museum because it's a 'broken link'... because it shows how his work changed from 'this' to 'that'. There are many factors out there. Taste is as flexible as the human mind - which is what makes it so rich, varied and contentious at times.

I am often bewildered by the 'art' that is declared by those who display and sell it to be 'great', or at least, significant. I don't always think so. I've decided that the real reason such work attains that stature is that it's lineage is recognizable to those who assimilate such stuff, and those folks understand its genesis from the influences of its progenitors. Because it fulfills their expectations of what should/ought to evolve as a next step, they feel vindicated in their taste. VERY human, I suppose, but mysterious to me.

 

[Sparky]

There's a really excellent book by Pierre Bourdieu called DISTINCTION - which is about just THAT. And it suggests that 'taste' is more of a subcultural tool that people use (arbitrarily) to dintinguish themselves from other groups. It also suggests that university education is not so much about 'learning' in the sense of gaining 'absolute knowledge' so much as learning 'how to talk' such that you will be recognized as part of the group by your 'peers'.... very interesting read! There are studies in the book, where the research team expose various photographs of art works (indeed also 'art photographs') to many many kinds of people. The responses are nothing short of fascinating!

I have believed for some time that taste is something that people need to be told to have. If someone is a great musician/photographer who really will notice? I think that most people will need to be told how great something is before they can recognize it. This is also the reason why some works which are promoted as great art are successful even when they are not great art. I could go on and on about this, just from the things I have seen in my life, but I'll leave it at that.

Great story and beautiful music.

Patrick

 

[David H. Bebbington]

I have believed for some time that taste is something that people need to be told to have. If someone is a great musician/photographer who really will notice? I think that most people will need to be told how great something is before they can recognize it. This is also the reason why some works which are promoted as great art are successful even when they are not great art. I could go on and on about this, just from the things I have seen in my life, but I'll leave it at that.

Great story and beautiful music.

Patrick

Observation from my own experience: For a certain period in my life (about 30 years ago), I spent some time as a language tutor acompanying German businesspeople on visits to Britain (in particular London). They would often ask me for suggestions on places to go, I would suggest Ronnie Scott's jazz club, even if they were not overt jazz fans or music fans at all. I found that choosing artists who were not averse to shownmanship in their acts (I especially recall Earl Hines and Dizzy Gillespsie, among others), this would break down barriers and the music would communicate, even to those of the "tin-eared" persuasion.

In the particular case of the violinist in the subway, I think the "test parameters" were not conducive to a meaningful result. If people are hurrying to work and in fear of being fired for lateness, they will not stop for anything, many others simply block out buskers, beggars and anyone else who may accost them in public places. This incident in no way proves that the majority of the public is Philistine, selfish and uncultured!

 

[Mark Sawyer]

And perhaps it is the strength of the visual arts, especially photography, that we can isolate that moment of exquisiteness not noticed, put a frame around it, and give it back to someone to recognize what was missed passing through the world with senses closed off...

Pretentious, perhaps, but so is playing Bach on a Stradavarius in a subway, hoping someone will notice. The sad thing may be how many don't notice our own work, no matter how much "context" we try to give it...

 

[bjorke]

The article didn't seem to mention pack mentality. If other commuters aren't stopping, you feel like it would be wrong for you to stop.

I get this all the time when photographing. Slowing down to look isn't just unusual, there are plenty of people who consider it offensive, an obstacle preventing them from getting home to soemthing deeper and more substantial, like Desperate Housewives or the Tyra Banks Show.

 

[jimgalli]

Thank you David.

In a nation where "American Idol" is 1 and 2 on the Neilsens top 10 list and regularly in the news, if David hadn't pointed me to this article I would have never found it.

At first I was appalled at the dumbing down of our nation. But LFAZ got me thinking that I'm also guilty. Stalled for 2 1/2 hours in the Denver Airport with nothing to do I graze the halls looking at the pictures. If an important painting from some period had been hung there I would have passed it by without a second look. I gravitate to see if there are any photographers. There are so I look at those, and even then, since they aren't very like the work I like best, (they are digisnaps printed so large and colors so garish they make my eyes water) I turn my nose up at them also.

Even those of us who are tuned somewhat to the arts have a very narrow interest parameter. I go to the Getty to see some important old Master photographers exhibit and I can't get through the boring statuary fast enough on my way to what I want to see.

 

[Daniel_OB]

Did not read all, but it is good sign that this planet is slowly gething back to "normal"

Bjorke: The article didn't seem to mention pack mentality. If other commuters aren't stopping, you feel like it would be wrong for you to stop.

True but lets hope the best.

www.Leica-R.com

 

[DrPablo]

It's hard to appreciate art of any kind unless your mind has a certain freedom from distraction, and that's the whole point of going to concerts, museums, or even just playing a CD. What can you expect of commuters who are trying to get from point A to point B, or distracted by thoughts of work or home? Even if they are great appreciators of music in general, that doesn't make a subway stop a venue in which they can enjoy it.

I find the most effective performances in subways to be dynamic ones. Like drumming circles (even if they're just drumming on plastic buckets). The percussion can rise above the background noise, and there is a certain energy to it that matches the freneticism of the crowd and the noise of the train. Great though he is, I just don't think Mstislav Rostropovich playing Bach's suites for solo cello would be nearly as effective in a subway compared with a concert hall.

 

[Helen B]

I got the impression that Joshua Bell did not consider his performance in the context within which it would be heard - rather he imposed a performance that would be more appropriate for another time and place. Was the music he played written for a transit station in the rush hour? If it wasn't then how could this be considered as a wonderful pearl of a performance that was lost on ignorant swine, as the title of the article implies?

Now if he had played Brian Eno's Violin Solo for Transit Stations in the Morning Rush Hour, Michael Nyman's Musique à Petit Vitesse or John Cage's Walk Past Me Please then it might have been a valid exercise.

Had he been playing his Strad while doing a tumbling act down a crowded, lurching subway car and managed to collect the money from the smiling, appreciative passengers before the next stop, then he would have been able to consider himself amongst the elite subway performers.

Or give us The Edgar Broughton Band on the back of a lorry. There's unappreciated musical genius and talent for you.

Best,
Helen

 

[Lee Shively]

The context is important and I agree with Helen on that point. I don't think the piece of music being played would have led to any substantially different outcome. People were going through their normal workday routine, picking up some lottery tickets along the way, and were likely only aware of the music peripherally. Now, if Bell had been playing in a city park on a Sunday afternoon....That context would likely lead to a different result.

 

[David Brown]

In the particular case of the violinist in the subway, I think the "test parameters" were not conducive to a meaningful result. If people are hurrying to work and in fear of being fired for lateness, they will not stop for anything, many others simply block out buskers, beggars and anyone else who may accost them in public places. This incident in no way proves that the majority of the public is Philistine, selfish and uncultured!

Agreed! Wish I'd said this instead of what I did post. Oh, well.:rolleyes:

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Agreed with the invalid test situation. The way to test it would have been to put him not in the entryway to the station, where people are exiting, but on a platform, where he has an already captive audience. Unfortunately, the DC Metro being Metro, that wouldn't ever happen. It has only been within the last few years that they have allowed performers OUTSIDE their stations.

 

[copake_ham]

Agreed with the invalid test situation. The way to test it would have been to put him not in the entryway to the station, where people are exiting, but on a platform, where he has an already captive audience. Unfortunately, the DC Metro being Metro, that wouldn't ever happen. It has only been within the last few years that they have allowed performers OUTSIDE their stations.

One possibility would be to recreate Bell's experience on the NYC subways. Here, performers are permitted on the platforms - but only during non-rush hours. That limitation, too, might render the test situation invalid since non-rush hour users are often locals or tourists not necessarily taking the train when "time-is-critical".

I can say of such platform performers in NYC that they range in talent and musical style from inspried to insipid - yet I have seen examples of both extremes both be ignored and draw a crowd. You usually need one person to stop and then another does, and another and....

However, rarely does the "audience" stick around long enough to determine whether the performer is a one-trick pony or really does have a repertoire!

 

[DrPablo]

There's almost no way you could make this a statistically meaningful study that couldn't be fundamentally challenged. I don't think a captive audience makes it more valid -- it just slightly alters the research question.

Think about what it would take just for some statistical validity. First, you would need a control. That means the same performer has to play mediocre music sometimes and virtuosic music other times. And in order to make sure that the "control" and "experimental" audiences are the same, he couldn't do things like alternate hours and days, because different groups commute at different times. He would need either long stretches (weeks) of performing one way and then the other, or he would need complete randomization over a long period.

Then what is your outcome measure? A prospective study needs to have a primary outcome measure that is predetermined (and is therefore the result of a specific study design). In this case, donations would be the most easily quantifiable one.

But is that a valid outcome measure? And are you really studying the general population when you look at donations? The only commonality shared by people on the subway is their chosen mode of transportation. But maybe people who like his kind of music are wealthier, or more generous, or more likely to take pity, or more likely to have change in their pocket. Maybe it's the opposite. But at any rate, by looking at donations, all you're doing is testing a subset of the general population that likes his kind of music. And because you can't presume that the remainder of the population would ever donate to that kind of musician, you wouldn't be able to draw conclusions about the general population.

 

[ilya1963]

Good read, Thank you David...
It is funny that no one here mantioned this , but to me this is as much of a study of the crowd as it is of the artist...
Would he go on to continue playing if he lost his captive audience and did not make millions in his everyday life ?
May be someone here that has made it to their ultimate destination in photography , how does it feel? Do you still have the same desire or is it only mesured by so much dollars a minute?
I wonder what he learned from this expiriment or did he just take his 40+ grand and chuckled about it.
I have always wondered about the psyche of an artist that commits a suicide at the top , wheather an overdose or whatever, is it because one becomes numb and not feel anymore as intensly or is it because what one feels is realy never understood , maybe both...

Glen Gould walked away from performing in public and only did recordings.

This study raises one very important question for me

Does ARTIST need an audience?

I mean not like here when someone posts a print and is looking for a technical help , I mean if you are there already with the technique ...

Why do people show their work that is supperb , is it in hopes to sell their work ?
What does an artist get when everybody says you are doing great work but no one buys it?
Just a few questions this article made me think about...

THanks for the link again,
ILYA

 

[jstraw]

...or did he just take his 40+ grand and chuckled about it.

I missed a reference for his being paid to do this. What 40+ grand?

This was a successful endeavor because it wasn't an experiment. There was no hypothesis. It was simply an exploration of "what would happen if?" There were some speculations after it was set up that sorta look like hypothesis but they weren't.

Now you could apply the empirical data to a theory ex post facto, though as several have poointed out, there was no control.

This exersize could be relevent to a theory about the power of beauty to divert very focused attention.

My personal feeling is that the commuters were understandably locked into a zone of focus that simply forbade diversion by anything short of threats to personal safety or something else of a similarly critical nature.

 

[ilya1963]

Maybe it's me , I usualy try to put myself in the shoes of an artist and try to understand how would it feel wearing them...

If the artists work was ignored repeatedly like it happened here , would I go on doing it? Do I need audience to validate me?

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

There's almost no way you could make this a statistically meaningful study that couldn't be fundamentally challenged. I don't think a captive audience makes it more valid -- it just slightly alters the research question.

I think here is the nexus of the dilemma - they're trying to come up with a "scientific" measurement for an aesthetic response, which has been highly resistant to scientific measurement. I think the most telling bit of evidence in the article was the observation that ALL children wanted to stop and listen. It was the parents who didn't have time for it. It wasn't that the parents lacked an appreciation for something of high aesthetic value - they felt under pressure to NOT respond for various reasons.

 

[MattKing]

It would be interesting to see if one would get the same response if one had, for example, a talented vocalist singing a beautiful song. Or maybe even a talented saxophone player playing some classic (and reasonably accessible) Charlie Parker.

I am not convinced that the choice of music and instrument goes well with the choice of venue.

If the experiment had taken place in a public square, at lunch time, on a sunny day, I expect the result would have been quite different.

Matt

 

[copake_ham]

It would be interesting to see if one would get the same response if one had, for example, a talented vocalist singing a beautiful song. Or maybe even a talented saxophone player playing some classic (and reasonably accessible) Charlie Parker.

I am not convinced that the choice of music and instrument goes well with the choice of venue.

If the experiment had taken place in a public square, at lunch time, on a sunny day, I expect the result would have been quite different.

Matt

Matt,

These are excellent points - particularly as to time and location. On a warm spring day performing in front of the folks sitting on the steps of the Metropolitan Museum of Art one is likely to obtain better than a $32 haul!

Besides if Bell, as a busker brought in $32 for 45 minutes, he presumably would have made about $40 for an hour. Not a bad hourly rate for a busker playing in front of a subway station!

 

[ilya1963]

Did Bach ever think of his work beeing played in the subway?

Yes this experiment is too abstract ,but that is the whole point- it is to see if The Beauty is Relevant and universal (that is why it's the best of the instrument and the artist)

Lets pretend that the beauty of music was replaced by a beauty of human body and we replaced Bell by a beautifull model, how would it have changed the results , would you still have to be in front of Metropolitan to be appreciated? Why is that not IRRELEVANT? Why would you have a crowd then? Is it because avarges have been lowered?

Am I off the topic here?