The Infinite Monkey Principle

[Leighgion]

The Infinite Monkey should be a superhero.

 

[Pete H]

Have you read Shakespeare?

Wasn't that Shakespeare's theorem that ntenny was quoting?

 

[ntenny]

Have you read Shakespeare?

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Is your point just that _Hamlet_ isn't written in digits, and therefore the decimal expansion of pi doesn't "contain" it in a literal sense?

(Which of course is true, but there are plenty of ways to represent text numerically, and I think most of us are talking through that relationship transparently.)

-NT

 

[Q.G.]

I'm not sure what you're saying here. Is your point just that _Hamlet_ isn't written in digits, and therefore the decimal expansion of pi doesn't "contain" it in a literal sense?

(Which of course is true, but there are plenty of ways to represent text numerically, and I think most of us are talking through that relationship transparently.)

-NT

If so, the opening words of Hamlet are right there, right after the decimal point. And next to that. And in the first place it is combined with the second place, all in one. And ...

And not just in Pi.
Also in you social security number. The zip code of your local library. The ... [etc. The possibilities are infinite].

So given an infinity, is it there?
Of course not. Infinity does not exist.

 

[Perry Way]

So given an infinity, is it there? Of course not. Infinity does not exist.

BINGO! That's the answer I was waiting for!

 

[Perry Way]

The Infinite Monkey should be a superhero.

If ever there was a monkey that could make even the simplest "sun print" from the silhouette of his hand (no negative required, thus theoretically exponentially easier) I would wholely agree with you dude!

 

[Christopher Walrath]

The Infinite Monkey should be a superhero.

It's . . .

INFINITE MONKEY!

And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!

Hey, I didn't start it. Shouldn't say stuff like that in front of me.

And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!
And his sidekick . . . INFINITE MONKEY!

 

[Q.G.]

BINGO! That's the answer I was waiting for!

You've waited too long. See post #16.

 

[ntenny]

So given an infinity, is it there?
Of course not. Infinity does not exist.

What a silly statement. What do you think "exist" means?

-NT

 

[Perry Way]

Okay peoples, for a hoot, for a laugh and a half, you need to visit this link!

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/An_infinite_number_of_monkeys_with_typewriters

 

[Perry Way]

You've waited too long. See post #16.

Oh, sure enough you're right. I didn't read that far down the first time around!

 

[nickandre]

Someday I will give a monkey a polaroid camera...or infinitely many monkeys infinitely many polaroid cameras. I think they'd be fascinated if they could hold their concentration long enough to realize what had happened.

 

[eddym]

All I can say is...
Who's going to clean up all the monkey crap?

 

[Sim2]

Is there not supposed to be an infinite number of alternative dimensions?

If so, in one of them the monkeys are taking all the picctures and we are in the trees.

 

[Ian David]

How come we need an infinite number of monkeys anyway? Isn't one immortal monkey with nothing better to do enough?

 

[Christopher Walrath]

Posted wirelessly..

Is there not supposed to be an infinite number of alternative dimensions?

If so, in one of them the monkeys are taking all the picctures and we are in the trees.

No no no. We hold up the ceiling for the monkeys. The bricks are in the trees.

 

[nick mulder]

Well not a small oops but a big oops, like turning the lights on after opening all the packages of photographic paper, but now that sounds kind of dumb after all these smart theorists have contributed their pieces.

It's a thought experiment - most of them are easy enough to trip up with besides the point gotchas like this ...

amusing, until the day you need to find x that is...

So, how does infinity not exist - at least within the context of this thought experiment ? and what exactly is so objectionable about the infinite monkey principle ?

 

[Perry Way]

It's a thought experiment - most of them are easy enough to trip up with besides the point gotchas like this ...

amusing, until the day you need to find x that is...

So, how does infinity not exist - at least within the context of this thought experiment ? and what exactly is so objectionable about the infinite monkey principle ?

3.4.5 don't even need a calculator or to calculate. it's memorized by rote since I built that house with my cousin.

Infinity does in fact not exist. if it existed, it would be something definable you could point to and single out from something else. in this way infinity and zero are very much related.

By the way, I realize that was a lousy answer I provided earlier. It wasn't well thought out. What I meant by the first oops and it's all over would be one monkey in his own darkroom; there's paper all over, he opened them all looking for bananas. hey its dark in there, he can't see anything and he is hungry. so then he turns on the light because he finally reaches the light switch, now all the paper is ruined. that monkey just lost his opportunity to try again. whereas the monkey on the typewriter, say he's at the last word of a novel, and then he flubs up.. well, he can theoretically continue typing and type that novel all over again and then not mess up on the last word and succeed. A comparison of the oops for the darkroom monkey would be like the typing monkey to smash the typewriter so that it does not work anymore. That monkey is now out of commission and the number of competing monkeys gets smaller.

I don't find the theory objectionable. I just find it wrong I think the theorist who invented this description, did so on April 2nd of whatever year it was. I think the theory's real purpose is to prove that impossible does in fact exist no matter how much you throw at it, even an "infinite" amount of monkeys will never accomplish anything because there are not an infinite amount of anything, except for consciousness. I can't prove it, but I do believe there is an infinite amount of souls, or containers of consciousness. And I think that is because souls are always being created but never destroyed and in the realm of being on this side of the veil separating the soul from the soul generating machine time exists but on the other side of it, time is a constant now where all experiences we have had exist at one time there. And that is infinity. It does not in fact exist! It is apart from existing....

Here's a question for you. Say the number of competing monkeys gets smaller. Does that make infinity smaller by one?

 

[brianmquinn]

Do you think the monkeys will be able to answer this?

 

[Athiril]

By the nature of infinity they could... let me give you an example..

A 640x480 image.

Lets say 256 colours (8-bit)

Generate every single possible combination of 8-bit pixels and you have an image of everything that has and hasnt happened, every mathematic formula yet to be discovered, random noise, and pictures that tile together to create bigger pictures.

There'll be a lot of crap, a lot of false information and things that never happened, but also every piece of information ever as well. And it's not infinite.

if I calculate correctly its every combination of 2457600 bits, which is more than could be generated and stored though

The datasize would be (2^2457600) * 2457600/8 in bytes.

 

[nick mulder]

Brian: Yes, monkeys will solve that - even us humans did (heh) ...

Perry: infinity - 1 = infinity

There is an infinity within any given bound also - which you can point at... 'infinitesimals' - limits etc... I should prefix this all with 'there will always be someone smarter than you on the net' - at least someone who thinks they are, and may just convince you they are, even though they aren't

 

[nick mulder]

Athiril - how many more posts before we get onto the many worlds hypothesis ?

Or that analog photography is actually discrete ?

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

It takes the monkeys about a 1,000,000 years to produce all the works of humanity. Need 2 monkeys to start, 7 billion at the finish. Certainly finite numbers.

"I was a victim of a series of accidents. As are we all." - K. Vonnegut

 

[Q.G.]

What a silly statement. What do you think "exist" means?

-NT

Silly?

Why don't you tell us how infinity exists, using whatever understanding of the word "exist" you would like.

Here's a thought experiment for you to help you on your way.
It supposes the often heard thingy, that parallel lines intersect in infinity. The veracity of that is not important, we'll just assume it is true.
And here's another assumption: we, you and i, live forever, unless one of us taps the other one on the shoulder. Again, not important whether that is true or not.
Now you and i will go for a walk. But not just any walk, but a walk along two parallel lines far enough apart that we can't reach far enough to give that lethal shoulder tap.
So there we go, merrily on our way.
And here's the question to be answered: when will we able to kill each other?

We have a concept of infinity. And there it ends.

 

[st23]

I think it will take a million years to evolve a monkey that will sit at a typewriter and type long enough to type anything of significance. I am sort of evolved and I had a hard time in college finding the motivation to type my homework. Has anybody put any number of monkeys in a room with a typewriter and seen if they do anything with it except sniff it and use it to scratch their armpits? I think given an infinite amount of time, the monkeys will break the typewriters throwing them around the room - bored silly because they are in a room full of typewriters.
I think the monkeys will be doing what monkeys do: delousing each other, throwing poop, and breeding like ... well like they're trying to create an infinite number of monkeys