The Inevitable

[Early Riser]

.... because selling a copy of a print for $5.00 makes you a pro by definition. ........

It doesn't and your, and many others, misunderstanding of the term professional that is part of the problem. Actually by definition a "professional" is:

"a person engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime"

It helps to know what a professional is when you choose to call yourself one. It is because so many people who have sold a print for $5.00 or photographed their friend's wedding, call and consider themselves "professional" that professional photography has become devalued and has gained a poor reputation.

 

[walter23]

Welcome to your culture, man.

There are two things that have become sort of fundamental to it:

#1. Everybody has to be the best at everything they do (and everything they don't do but have at least thought about doing), and nothing else will suffice... which isn't a bad attitude in theory, but it usually leads to posturing rather than learning, or else manic frenzied anxious learning without enjoyment.

#2. Retail product comanies will exploit anything to sell gear. If they can design cunning advertisements to sell the image of professional photography (or just about any sport or hobby you could imagine) and get the average person into professional quality gear, they make a fortune. Digital forums like FM are full of prosumers (ie, "professional consumers" ) snapping up $10,000 worth of top notch photo gear and chasing their kids and squirrels and ducks around. And all just in response to the anxiety stemming from #1.

I'm 15, and for the last year and a half, I've been interested in photography - I started off digitally, and I've recently started to shoot some film. Hence I'm here.

A few of my friends are starting to get into photography - one of them, I will admit does have technical knowledge, and does produce some stunning photos - but he doesn't appreciate film at all. But my gripe is with the others.

Some of them have SLRs, and some have prosumer cameras, however, none of them really know what they're doing.

I don't claim to be a good photorapher - that takes years, and i'm only young. I want to learn though. I have read about the technical skill, and know where I am, I think that film will help with that a great deal.

The problem I have is with my friends, without knowing what aperture is, not knowing the existance of exposure correction, colour profiles, the raw format - they are acting as pseudo-professionals, and not caring for technical knowledge. They act as "<insert name here> Photography" with little regard for focus or unclipped highlights.

The main trouble is the prevolence of these people - thousands of pseudo-professionals. Which could present the biggest danger to the real professional photographers. I fit into neither group.

 

[JBrunner]

........snapping up $10,000 worth of top notch photo gear and chasing their kids and squirrels and ducks around. And all just in response to the anxiety stemming from #1.

And cats. And dogs. And sunsets.

 

[Krockmitaine]

yes, but i'd have a bungee cord.

i'd need to get some decent shots of them falling - you see. maybe "the fall of consumer photography" would be a good title for a set.

You're young and have a great sense of humor. You'll do just fine in life.

And welcome to apug.

Marc

 

[okto]

You think your friends are bad, check out the 'professional' photogs you're at any sort of newsworthy event. Half of modern professionals seem to now dogshit about actual photography—you know, the kind where you know what your lens' best aperture is, and how slow you can hand-hold. Things like what a prime lens is. It pisses me off to see these guys with two 1D MkIIIs with baseball bat lenses slung around their necks, and they spend half their time chimping or looking at the top LCD. You're there to TAKE FUCKING PICTURES, not fiddle with shit! I mean, maybe I'm an obsessed bastard, but I'm of the opinion that until you're out of film/storage space/light/things to photograph, you ought to have that thing to your eye tripping that shutter.

And turn the camera portrait sometimes! Not every subject is horizontal, ffs!

 

[Markok765]

Well, your photos will be better than theirs!

Almost all my friends are using digital cameras. They are amazed by the quality of prints I give them.

My film is almost done in the fixer!

 

[Christopher Walrath]

Sorry, Riser. I always thought an amateur didn't get paid and a pro did. The $5.00 for one print might have been a bit extreme but I was trying to make ... A .. FUNNY ... POINT. And I don't recall to ever having referred to myself as a professional photographer. Yes I have done a wedding or two. Yes I have sold a print or two. But I know that Standard Motor Products refers to a DPFE sensor as an EGR Pressure Feedback Sensor. Actually most of the Aftermarket parts manufacturers do. I am a professional auto parts salesman. My love is photography and I am a serious hobbyist. That's all.

Keep it light.

 

[Markok765]

The $5.00 for one print might have been a bit extreme but I was trying to make ... A .. FUNNY ... POINT.

I sell my prints for $5 to my friends!

 

[MattKing]

Professional used to mean much more than "I get paid for what I do".

A professional photographer should mean more than a working photographer, or a photographer for hire.

Not to denigrate working photographers, or photographers for hire, of course

Matt

 

[Graham.b]

I would like to add a small point here, not on the finish but the over all picture, no pun.
When all your friends are for ever upgrading and having to have two or three hard drives to look after all
of their files. Then the it will never happen to me, the hard drive fails and all your work is gone.

Then there is the new toy in the bag, and only to keep up with what they have next door, or what the local
camera shop has that is going to make you a better photographer. (yea right).
Did i hear somewhere it is cheap to use digi, well lets see, a mid slr (digi) 500+ lens 300+ software, this can be got
free on line. So internet is needed, (most will have this but money) Cost of inks. 10 a pot x 6-9 in a printer,
ah they say, we only print what we want as you do in the dark room. It is really it is so costly to use this paper and inks.
Then there is the way to view them on a lap top, no feel for picture taken just a image on a screen.

I see a lot of do a wedding or the baby next door, and what do they ask for when they look at your work on other subjects.
Yes your right, can you do it in mono (black and white) may be toned, yes this can be done on the screen, but they seem
more interested in the film format strange that, with all that tec about aswell.
I say this with experience, and just lately a lady a couple of doors down has only just asked me to do a family shot of her children.
In film no less.
Sorry to go on but in one of the photo mags out now, in side black and white, convert your digi files. You spend all the money then
go and convert a colour chip to mono, and they still do not look good. Should have bought a couple of rolls of film saved your self
a 1000 +.

Well come to the site.

Graham.

Long live film

 

[mmcclellan]

Whatever you do, stick to your beliefs and don't let them get you down. And be ready to explain how many MBs a 35mm negative shot on slow speed film is equal to (something like 50 MBs?) and why that is superior to even very expensive digital cameras. Photography is being dumbed down, like a lot of things, but there is always room for good shooters, so concentrate on IMAGES (whether made with film, digital thingies, paint and canvas, etc.) and making your images as strong as possible. When people see strong images, they will accept your methods and will not be as quick to criticize. But even if they do, just keep doing what you believe is right. And don't hesitate to ask all your great friends here about technical or aesthetic stuff at any time! We're on your side!

 

[Christopher Walrath]

Professional used to mean much more than "I get paid for what I do".

A professional photographer should mean more than a working photographer, or a photographer for hire.

Not to denigrate working photographers, or photographers for hire, of course

Matt

Actually this is kinda what I was trying to put out there. Sometimes my wording gets all wrongy.

 

[Snapshot]

As a comment, I would like to commend the OP for questioning the direction photography has been taking. At risk of sounding like a platitude, all I can say it's about what you think, not what other people think. Let them be. Eventually, they'll get bored and drop out of photography altogether.

As an aside, there is absolutely no need to apologize or justify the use of film for your craft. Your results will speak volumes on your behalf.

 

[milkplus-mesto]

As a comment, I would like to commend the OP for questioning the direction photography has been taking. At risk of sounding like a platitude, all I can say it's about what you think, not what other people think. Let them be. Eventually, they'll get bored and drop out of photography altogether.

As an aside, there is absolutely no need to apologize or justify the use of film for your craft. Your results will speak volumes on your behalf.

I think the apologising for using film thing is just a reflex reaction to the fact that nobody around me at school understands it. Even my friend who has large amounts of technical skill in photography says that it's obsolete, and isn't worth it. My slight gratification here comes from the fact that he's failing most of his subjects, and doesn't respect even his art class.

Still, I went out today and bought my first load of chemicals and paper to use, so i'll start developing tomorrow for the first time. Wish me luck.

 

[MattKing]

Good luck, and have fun!

Silver and chemistry based photography isn't obsolete, it is just mature.

Those who use and enjoy it are also mature.

You can use this if you would like .

Welcome to the site.

Matt

 

[copake_ham]

At your age it is usually very hard to go against the flow. Peer pressure probably peaks in the teen years, as does the resultant desire to "fit in".

My best advice is to follow your personal preference for real photography - but don't give in to the temptation to act superior.

It will just piss off your peers if you do so and could well ostracize you at a key point in your life.

Blaze your own trail quietly - with the knowledge that at sites like this you can exchange thoughts and ideas with like-minded folk of all ages and stripes living all over the world.

Kind regards,
George

 

[JBrunner]

Actually it is digital cameras that are obsolete, like about every fifteen minutes. Film has a tradition and a pedigree. It's the difference between an Ipod, and going to the symphony.

 

[arigram]

It's the difference between an Ipod, and going to the symphony.

Certain LF cameras are definitely as mobile as a symphony.

 

[Snapshot]

I think the apologising for using film thing is just a reflex reaction to the fact that nobody around me at school understands it. Even my friend who has large amounts of technical skill in photography says that it's obsolete, and isn't worth it. My slight gratification here comes from the fact that he's failing most of his subjects, and doesn't respect even his art class.

Still, I went out today and bought my first load of chemicals and paper to use, so i'll start developing tomorrow for the first time. Wish me luck.

The next time someone asks you why you use film, just smile and say you prefer it and leave it at that. There is no need to justify anything to them.

Good luck on the chemistry!

 

[Nigel]

Actually it is digital cameras that are obsolete, like about every fifteen minutes. Film has a tradition and a pedigree. It's the difference between an Ipod, and going to the symphony.

Is that why I get funny looks on the subway when I am using my symphony to listen to some music?

 

[milkplus-mesto]

I just developed my first roll of film - a cross processed colour film (i used b&w chemicals for it) - that was interesting, and I got some good results from it. I didn't have a thermometer, and the graph i had of exposure times didn't extend far enough to plot the right time for the temperature I guessed - so I ended up with some slightly odd results. Then I tried my b&w test film. That went alright, the images were reasonably well exposed - but I won't know completely until I enlarge them properly, not digitally. It wasn't bad for a first film, i guess, but i've got so far to go.

 

[pentaxuser]

Sounds like you have the equivalent of a personal darkroom. When the rest begin to see the quality that comes from film tell them that you must have just got lucky. Otherwise they might all want to join you!

I have similar problems with friends and acquaintances who don't have the excuse of youth as your social circle does. So you're not alone. Adopt an attitude of zen and if you find two copies of "Zen and the Art of Analogue Photography" send me one. My circle and yours can be trying at times.

So far to go but so much time to get there. At my age I'll swop with you in an instant.

pentaxuser

 

[milkplus-mesto]

Sounds like you have the equivalent of a personal darkroom. When the rest begin to see the quality that comes from film tell them that you must have just got lucky. Otherwise they might all want to join you!

I have similar problems with friends and acquaintances who don't have the excuse of youth as your social circle does. So you're not alone. Adopt an attitude of zen and if you find two copies of "Zen and the Art of Analogue Photography" send me one. My circle and yours can be trying at times.

So far to go but so much time to get there. At my age I'll swop with you in an instant.

pentaxuser

The personal darkroom is more a case of "small bathroom with no windows, a spiral, and some chemicals," but it works wonders - now i've experienced it, it's magical finally getting an image on film, having spent all that time waiting, agitating, waiting, transferring, waiting, waiting.

I'm taking a few more rolls of images next tuesday, so i'll see how those turn out with the benefit of having done it before (and maybe having a thermometer)

You're right though, I do have time - which is why I'm starting analogue photography now, to make the most of the opportunities I have now.

On another note, take a look at this:
Dead Link Removed

thanks

 

[Christopher Walrath]

I just developed my first roll of film - a cross processed colour film (i used b&w chemicals for it) - that was interesting, and I got some good results from it. I didn't have a thermometer, and the graph i had of exposure times didn't extend far enough to plot the right time for the temperature I guessed - so I ended up with some slightly odd results. Then I tried my b&w test film. That went alright, the images were reasonably well exposed - but I won't know completely until I enlarge them properly, not digitally. It wasn't bad for a first film, i guess, but i've got so far to go.

Congrats, man. I just started dev'ing B&W a month ago and I'm 38. You got one hell of a lead on me. Keep it up. Good onya.

 

[pentaxuser]

Thanks for the Zen and photography article.

pentaxuser