"The Great Film Renaissance Of 2017" courtesy of B&H

[Ko.Fe.]

B&H seems to be bullish about film in this piece: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/features/great-film-renaissance-2017?utm_medium=Email 1642162&utm_campaign=Content&utm_source=WeeklyContent 170408&utm_content=Explora&utm_term=great-film-renaissance-2017

To me it will be valid if they wrote something simple as - "we sold 10% more film cameras, film and chemicals as before". Why it is not in the article? Or did I missed it?
Instead, all I know what I can't order C-41 kit from them anymore and somehow, something simple as HC-110 is on waiting list. Plus, visitors are telling about diminishing film department at their store....

 

[MattKing]

Matt-
what I find ironic about the whole "we can't ship hazardous chemicals because of XYZ reason" is that B&H is not the point of origin for these chemicals, and they're not being drop-shipped by the manufacturer. B&H is stocking them in their warehouse/store, which means that they had to get IN to New York on a truck. So how is it possible to receive them via the same shipment method that you refuse to use to ship them out? The only viable explanation I can see is the one previously mentioned about needing some kind of certification for packaging chemistry that not enough/any of their staff had.

Wouldn't it be nice if there was a single, clear and logical set of rules about shipping products like photographic chemicals (or lithium batteries, for that matter)?
I'm not saying that B&H handled this well. I'm just saying that the circumstances that they deal have complexities that individuals don't deal with.
It may be as simple as B&H being charged an extra $1.00 by their shippers (under their special deal) for anything labelled as a "hazardous, but shippable" - and then rather than increasing the price by $1.50, having someone upstairs decide to not ship instead.

 

[one90guy]

Repetition of allegations without evidence. Why the B&H hate? Please share whatever insider information you've obtained that proves B&H didn't renegotiate its carrier agreement(s) and/or begin using a different carrier for chemical shipments. Otherwise, if I were B&H, I'd be considering legal action against you for slander.

In the past all my B&H came by UPS, my last order, and the first in about a year was by Fedex. This order was all chemicals except for a couple of small items.

David

 

[CMoore]

How F'ing hard could it be.?
I assume we have all had these chemicals shipped to our homes.?
I never noticed any outrageous packaging.......maybe there is.?

 

[RattyMouse]

Different poster, similar response:

You think chemicals can simply be placed into a box and given over to UPS or the USPS? I'm not even qualified to ship chemicals and I'm a 22 year veteran (and an MS degreed chemist) in my industry. It's not my job to receive this training so my company doesnt train me. Instead, I hand over chemical samples I want shipped to those who are trained in the packaging and paperwork that needs filing.

 

[RattyMouse]

How F'ing hard could it be.?
I assume we have all had these chemicals shipped to our homes.?
I never noticed any outrageous packaging.......maybe there is.?

It's the paperwork that has to be filed and in place. The government regulations to ship chemicals are very very extensive and require a lot of training.

 

[RattyMouse]

Different poster, similar response:

Take a bottle of Kodak HC-110. Place it in a box and go to the post office. Declare the contents of that package to the clerk and then watch how fast your package gets handed back to you.

 

[RattyMouse]

Matt-
what I find ironic about the whole "we can't ship hazardous chemicals because of XYZ reason" is that B&H is not the point of origin for these chemicals, and they're not being drop-shipped by the manufacturer. B&H is stocking them in their warehouse/store, which means that they had to get IN to New York on a truck. So how is it possible to receive them via the same shipment method that you refuse to use to ship them out? The only viable explanation I can see is the one previously mentioned about needing some kind of certification for packaging chemistry that not enough/any of their staff had.

Yes, that is exactly true. B & H surely receives some sort of bulk shipment of chemicals that goes to their warehouse. These then need to be repackaged down to smaller sizes. There are all kinds of government regulations on how this has to be done, what paper work has to be filed with the shippers, what placards have to be placed and where, and how to conform all these requirements to other countries that B & H ships to.

It's an enormous on going expense even after you pay to have people trained and certified.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

You think chemicals can simply be placed into a box and given over to UPS or the USPS?...

Depends on the chemical. Depends on the method of carriage, i.e. ground or air.

Specificity is crucial. Everything that's ever been shipped by anyone was composed of 'chemicals.' Some of the products intended for use in photo processing can indeed be boxed and shipped without special consideration if they're routed appropriately.

 

[Jim Noel]

Does the link I posted not work?

worked for me using Google.

 

[CMoore]

It's the paperwork that has to be filed and in place. The government regulations to ship chemicals are very very extensive and require a lot of training.

I See....i can certainly believe that.
I was in The Painters Union. Our shop guy had similar hoops to jump through.
Some of our "favorite products" were a PITA for him to stock ...or so he claimed. It seems like it was always the older products that us older painters knew about, and still liked to use, that was an issue.
But yeah, it is all Part Of A Chain of monitoring what/how much is made, where it goes, and i suppose most importantly...who buys it and what do they do with/use it .....and then how do they dispose of it that is a concern.
I guess i should have known better.

 

[Dali]

What a dick...

 

[RattyMouse]

I See....i can certainly believe that.
I was in The Painters Union. Our shop guy had similar hoops to jump through.
Some of our "favorite products" were a PITA for him to stock ...or so he claimed. It seems like it was always the older products that us older painters knew about, and still liked to use, that was an issue.
But yeah, it is all Part Of A Chain of monitoring what/how much is made, where it goes, and i suppose most importantly...who buys it and what do they do with/use it .....and then how do they dispose of it that is a concern.
I guess i should have known better.

A very good example would be to look at the labels on any of the common insect control chemicals you can buy at Home Depot. The labels that they print on those cans of Raid or other products are amazingly long, filled with all kinds of restrictions and warnings. Of course, the common consumer isnt going to read any of that and will just use the product any way that they want. Companies like B & H would never risk shipping chemicals except according to the law. That means a lot of paperwork to satisfy government regulators.

 

[chassis]

So..bullish on film, that's good news. What trends are happening in the pro world? Are clients increasingly asking for images captured on film, delivered digitally? Are professionals increasingly recommending film based capture, and clients accepting the recommendations?

In the 1980s, what was the market share split between consumer vs. pro film expenditure?

 

[Ai Print]

What trends are happening in the pro world? Are clients increasingly asking for images captured on film, delivered digitally? Are professionals increasingly recommending film based capture, and clients accepting the recommendations?

It’s still very much niche but it is a niche that a lot of the more informed clients are well aware of as a trend.

I think the mid to low end market is fairly film-absent since it is getting hammered by both the internet and the enthusiast at the wedding that thinks they are better than the pro crowd. The mid to low end ( Think PPA types ) are going out of business in droves because frankly, their work is not that good and could never compete in the high end to begin with, are being brought to their knees by people who just want to pay for a lens or two over the course of a year. Film use is a non-starter for these earning brackets because they are in a dying business model.

But the high end market is doing really well as always, not a trend, just the way it is and will be. With the exception being some of the more informed high end wedding & portrait types, I don’t think clients are really asking for film per se, just in search of a look or a style associated with a photographer’s use of film or in terms of deliverables, a resolution level from that style.

For me, it is clients looking for what I offer in a visual context and being more than happy to pay the minor added line item on the invoice for film since that is how I get there. Even in more high ticket shoots, the film cost is a scant fraction of even the other non-shoot or rights fee line items so it really is not a bother for the client.

I work with interior designers and the high end resort and travel industry a lot and in more than half the cases, I am sought after for my look in using B&W film or in some cases, commissioned to use B&W film outright. In the case of this mural project in Denver, the client was super stoked to have the bragging rights that his photographer shot the images on film. There were 8 pieces in all from a magazine article turned fine art piece in a marble quarry, very large output from Tmax 100 in 4x5 and one in 120:

 

[chassis]

Thanks Daniel for the thorough response. It makes sense to me, especially in the context of your market segment comments. Nice image in your post, and great work on your website!

 

[hired goon]

What's the big deal with the gripe about chemical shipping? Just order from somewhere else, like I did, and also have to every time they're closed. In fact, I generally do not order from them anymore.