The Fuji GFX100 and its ilk...

[Craig75]

People, you are getting trolled so hard....

 

[macfred]

 

[Sal Santamaura]

People, you are getting trolled so hard....

That would be at least be entertaining, but unfortunately it's not the case. The OP really believes all this nonsense about both visual image and audio recording technologies. Sad, but true.

 

[George Mann]

The OP really believes all this nonsense about both visual image and audio recording technologies. Sad, but true.

My eyes, ears and engineering expertise tells me that I am right!

 

[Pieter12]

All subject to deterioration with age.

 

[George Mann]

Well, if they insist on sticking with the tri-color filter array, then it would be best to employ a pure form of pixel shift summation to achieve the full (error free) native resolution of the sensor.

The error free part will require sophisticated algorithms to properly handle the summation/reconstruction of the resulting data, plus any needed aliasing filtration.

 

[grat]

What you're describing would require a sensor that knows the frequency of each photon it collects. To my knowledge, no one has a light sensing technology that comes anywhere near that capability, and certainly not one small enough to constitute a pixel.

 

[markjwyatt]

What you're describing would require a sensor that knows the frequency of each photon it collects. To my knowledge, no one has a light sensing technology that comes anywhere near that capability, and certainly not one small enough to constitute a pixel.

Something like this?

https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/145999/Nano-Hyperspec_Oct19.pdf

 

[grat]

Hrm. Hadn't seen that before. Appears to use a scanning slit with filters, and ultimately, a CMOS sensor. So it's still filtering light before it hits the photon collector, it's just doing it in a far more dynamic way than a Bayer array.

 

[George Mann]

The easiest way is to stick to my original design that employs a filterless monochrome sensor, preferably incorporating sensor sites of improved efficient .

 

[markjwyatt]

I have a number of full frame cameras that accept little rolls of photochemical recording material.

 

[George Mann]

I have a number of full frame cameras that accept little rolls of photochemical recording material.

My full frame cameras require rolls of biocelluloid, which captures breathtaking realism when developed with E6 chemistry, and viewed thru a hi quality loupe.

 

[MattKing]

Mine give me a new sensor for every single photo In take.
When people talk about having to have their sensor cleaned, I say "hah!".

 

[grat]

The easiest way is to stick to my original design that employs a filterless monochrome sensor, preferably incorporating sensor sites of improved efficient .

That's easy. Leica, among others, make Monochrome sensor cameras. But I told you that before, I believe.

 

[Pieter12]

My full frame cameras require rolls of biocelluloid, which captures breathtaking realism when developed with E6 chemistry, and viewed thru a hi quality loupe.

A single-use sensor, consisting of several layers of photosensitive material and filters. Similar to digital, with the exception of the single-use thing. Both need to be processed in order to be viewed, one chemically, the other electronically.

 

[George Mann]

That's easy. Leica, among others, make Monochrome sensor cameras. But I told you that before, I believe.

I know what is commercially available. But what I am referring to has yet to surface.

 

[George Mann]

A single-use sensor, consisting of several layers of photosensitive material and filters. Similar to digital, with the exception of the single-use thing. Both need to be processed in order to be viewed, one chemically, the other electronically.

But still miles apart.

 

[cayenne]

Until I see a digital imaging device that is as accurate, realistic and resolving of fine detail as film is capable of, I am going to have to continue to disagree.

<snip>
As I have stated on this forum previously, there are several things that manufacturers need to change in order to achieve this goal.

The biggest thing to change is to do away with the Bayer filter array, which prevents the full native resolution of the sensor from being utilized, which will also eliminate the need for the imperfect, distortion-inducing reliance on interpolation.

Physical anti-aliasing filters should also be discarded as well.

<snip>

I believe that a whole new type of sensor may have to be developed to fully achieve this goal.

Have you looked at the Leica M10 Monochrom. ?

That thing is a very interesting creature. It has a 40 MP FF sensor, but no Bayer filter and I believe not AA either.

That thing is a low light monster, and the gradations in luminance are really something to behold. It actually in some ways, looks a bit like medium format, depending on the lens you use, and talk about sharp.

Anyway, was reading the posts here and your post made me think to suggest that much of what you mentioned is there now.

I believe the Phase One MF digital did at one time make a monochrome camera...guessing it was similar to what I've described for the M10M....?

I've heard people are trying to suggest to Fuji that they do a GFX variant of a monochrom body.

THAT would be interesting...and Fuji, well, they just might be crazy enough to do something as niche as that.

I hate to say it, I'd likely save my pennies to try to score one if it was in the 100S price range.

cayenne

 

[George Mann]

I am aware of the monochrome camera's, as well as their cost.

The two things I am looking for is the introduction of affordable models, and software that can convert these images into color.

 

[cayenne]

I am aware of the monochrome camera's, as well as their cost.

The two things I am looking for is the introduction of affordable models, and software that can convert these images into color.

Oh ok....I'd posted before seeing some of the other replies to you.
Yeah, the M10M is a bit pricey.....but it is very niche and it also has the Leica name on it, so, that's to be expected.

But being niche, I'm doubting we'll see much more of its ilk from other manufacturers.

And I know I'm a noob....but as I understand it, a plain, non-Bayer CMOS sensor is luminance only...right? So, there is no way to generate color from it as you described, without the color filters placed on top of it....?

Or, maybe I'm misunderstanding you. Knowing me, that's likely the case.


Have a great day.
C

 

[George Mann]

And I know I'm a noob....but as I understand it, a plain, non-Bayer CMOS sensor is luminance only...right? So, there is no way to generate color from it as you described, without the color filters placed on top of it....?

As long as it captures the full gamut of greyscale, it should be possible to convert to color using a sophisticated software algorithm in post-processing.

 

[grat]

As long as it captures the full gamut of greyscale, it should be possible to convert to color using a sophisticated software algorithm in post-processing.

We've discussed this before. Current sensors only record amplitude-- essentially, the number of photons. There is no frequency information captured, and without that, it's difficult to tell the difference between "blue" and "infrared". To use an audio analogy, you're capturing volume, but not pitch.

Remember the film Psycho, and the shower scene? To use something that was believable as blod, (not necessarily accurate, but believable), they used chocolate sauce. The first few seasons of Doctor Who, filmed in black and white, used a pale mint green color for the ship's console-- because it looked "bright white" on film.

Without frequency data, it's very difficult to map grayscale to color-- that's the whole point of using the colored filters to group the grayscale data by frequency range. If you've seen the AI "enhanced" videos where people take very old B&W films and upscale / colorize them, the colorization is largely done with manual guidance.

 

[George Mann]

We've discussed this before. Current sensors only record amplitude-- essentially, the number of photons. There is no frequency information captured, and without that, it's difficult to tell the difference between "blue" and "infrared". To use an audio analogy, you're capturing volume, but not pitch.

Which is exactly why I stated the need for better sensor development in my make a better digital camera thread.

How long will digital remain a casual tool of convenience?

 

[grat]

Which is exactly why I stated the need for better sensor development in my make a better digital camera thread.

How long will digital remain a casual tool of convenience?

Computers, TV's (also computers), cell phones (also computers), media players (computers), digital cameras (computers), electric cars (computers).... My guess is until the next 1859 level solar flare that levels civilization.

Don't get me wrong-- in my opinion, MP3 has been the downfall of music (CD's weren't too bad), the fact that everything is a digital download is a disaster looking for a place to happen, and 4K televisions are barely more capable than a quality CRT from the 1990's. Commodity and convenience has replaced quality and durability. I type on a mechanical keyboard, which I had to shop for under the "gamer" category (and cost well over $100 USD), because mechanical keyboards are seriously better to type on than a membrane keyboard, no matter how clicky or tactile they become. I hadn't realized how bad my typing got until I purchased a decent keyboard, and my typing rate shot back up over 60 WPM.

I don't mind being able to set my thermostat remotely (from under the covers in the middle of winter is a wonderful thing), but I don't need an internet connected refrigerator, microwave, oven or coffee pot (and I have none of these things, but they exist).

Digital has it's place, but sometimes, it's hard to beat a quality analog system-- my Raspberry Pi based linux media player in my bedroom that accesses my entire music collection off of an NFS server outputs to a pair of speakers driven by a tube-type amplifier.

 

[RokkorZ]

I shoot 35mm film and slides, I also shoot digital full frame and cropped. I would love to use a GFX100, it'd just be another flavour of image making. There will be pros and cons no doubt, but it can only be a good thing having more options.