The Figure 8 Agitation Technique For Roll Film

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
12,072
Location
Coquitlam,BC Canada
Format
Multi Format
I've been asked about this technique to agitate roll films, and to show an example. I don't know where I learnt it from, but it is a technique that I have used since I got into photography many years ago. There is nothing special about it, really... but here it is! Cheers!

 

jay moussy

Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2019
Messages
1,314
Location
Eastern MA, USA
Format
Hybrid
Is the duration, or count, same as for a given inversion recipe?

(my poorly worded question, but you get the idea)
 

faberryman

Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
6,048
Location
Wherever
Format
Multi Format
A simple inversion works fine. Whoever taught you that obviously got bored in the darkroom one afternoon and started doing that to entertain himself. Nothing wrong with entertaining yourself when engaged in a mindless activity.
 
OP
OP

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
12,072
Location
Coquitlam,BC Canada
Format
Multi Format
Yes, simple inversion works fine for some, but remember... it's a classroom of kids agitating their film tanks. I don't want chemicals everywhere and all over them... otherwise I'll have parents complaining, and program could get shut down.
 
OP
OP

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
12,072
Location
Coquitlam,BC Canada
Format
Multi Format
jay moussy said:
Is the duration, or count, same as for a given inversion recipe?

(my poorly worded question, but you get the idea)
Click to expand...

All I can tell you is that one figure 8 is 1 second.
 

faberryman

Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
6,048
Location
Wherever
Format
Multi Format
Andrew O'Neill said:
Yes, simple inversion works fine for some, but remember... it's a classroom of kids agitating their film tanks. I don't want chemicals everywhere and all over them... otherwise I'll have parents complaining, and program could get shut down.
Click to expand...

I'd be more worried about trying to teach the kids figure 8 agitation,. I can only imagine the chaos.
 
OP
OP

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
12,072
Location
Coquitlam,BC Canada
Format
Multi Format
faberryman said:
I'd be more worried about trying to teach the kids figure 8 agitation,. I can only imagine the chaos.
Click to expand...

Well, I've been in the classroom for decades, and I know how teens operate. You name it, I've seen it. Figure 8 is very easy to do. There is no spillage. For kids with small hands, they do their 8's on the table top. Now of course there is that silly little black twisty stick. The least spilly of all. The previous teacher had the kids use them... but those kids were spinning them like a roulette wheel! As soon as I took over the program, they disappeared...
 
OP
OP

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
12,072
Location
Coquitlam,BC Canada
Format
Multi Format
pentaxuser said:
Maybe but I imagine that Andrew's kids are probably a bit older than kindergarten ones

pentaxuser
Click to expand...

Oldest kid is 19. They held him back a year.
 

faberryman

Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
6,048
Location
Wherever
Format
Multi Format

You are probably right. Be sure to film your kids first efforts at doing figure 8 agitation and post it on TikTok with a link here.
 
OP
OP

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
12,072
Location
Coquitlam,BC Canada
Format
Multi Format
By the way, I taught pinhole (with pop cans) to 5 and 6 year olds in Japan. They were little angels. Well behaved, and displayed a better work ethic than many of my current flock of teens! They were able to gently agitate 4x5 trays of solutions... caffenol, dilute vinegar stop, and fix, with very little spillage.
 
OP
OP

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
12,072
Location
Coquitlam,BC Canada
Format
Multi Format
faberryman said:
You are probably right. Be sure to film your kids doing figure 8 agitation and post it on TikTok with a link here.
Click to expand...

I avoid Tik Tok
 

Arvee

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
976
Location
Great Basin
Format
Multi Format
Andrew: Have you seen any evidence of uneven development? I've been wanting to give figure 8 a try (because of my leaky Nikor tanks) but worry about uneven development.

And thanks for posting the video!
 
Last edited:

BrianShaw

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
16,584
Location
La-la-land
Format
Multi Format
The figure-8 agitation has worked well for me, also. No signs of uneven agitation.

When using Patterson tanks, I sometimes use the twizzle stick agitation. No unevenness with that technique either.
 

Arvee

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
976
Location
Great Basin
Format
Multi Format
BrianShaw said:
The figure-8 agitation has worked well for me, also. No signs of uneven agitation.

When using Patterson tanks, I sometimes use the twizzle stick agitation. No unevenness with that technique either.
Click to expand...

Brian, thanks for the reply.
 

faberryman

Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2016
Messages
6,048
Location
Wherever
Format
Multi Format
If you are worried about uneven development, might I suggest a paint can shaker? Honestly, three or four inversions every 30 seconds, or even every minute, and you are good to go. Developing film is not rocket science. Of course, Andrew is going to have to do figure 8 agitation because he has a bunch of kids with leaky tanks, and doesn't want to make a mess. For the times when I did not have a darkroom, I developed at the kitchen sink. If you hold the tank over the sink while agitating, if there are any leaks, the liquid goes down the drain. That works better than holding the tank over the floor when you are agitating. I have a darkroom now, so I just develop in the darkroom sink.
 

MattKing

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
53,249
Location
Delta, BC Canada
Format
Medium Format
Figure 8 Agitation is perfectly designed for Kodak Roll Film Apron tanks - the ones that you cannot invert.
In fact, IIRC, that is what is recommended in the instructions packaged with the tanks.
 

Philippe-Georges

Subscriber
Joined
Apr 11, 2005
Messages
2,680
Location
Flanders Fields
Format
Medium Format
I have been doing this 8 shape mouvement for years and years, when mixing Sabayon with the egg whisk...

BTW, I agitate the roll film tank by systematically alternating between inverting (up-down) and rolling on the countertop (left-right), by doing so the liquid is moving crossways.

PS: Kindermann SS tanks don't leak...
 

gone

Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2009
Messages
5,504
Location
gone
Format
Medium Format
I use this method all the time. There were surge issues in the past when I was using straight agitation.

My Beseler tank doesn't leak either. Won't buy another Paterson, they all leaked.
 
OP
OP

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
12,072
Location
Coquitlam,BC Canada
Format
Multi Format
Arvee said:
Andrew: Have you seen any evidence of uneven development? I've been wanting to give figure 8 a try (because of my leaky Nikor tanks) but worry about uneven development.

And thanks for posting the video!
Click to expand...

None whatsoever! I also have Nikkor tanks that leak like a sieve. Figure-8's are the best alternative when using it.
 
OP
OP

Andrew O'Neill

Moderator
Moderator
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
12,072
Location
Coquitlam,BC Canada
Format
Multi Format
momus said:
I use this method all the time. There were surge issues in the past when I was using straight agitation.

My Beseler tank doesn't leak either. Won't buy another Paterson, they all leaked.
Click to expand...

In my opinion, the Patterson is terrible for leaking, when it's inverted. There are a couple of really old versions in my classroom with the screw on lid, that don't leak... but they are not daylight capable...which rules them out for classroom use.
 

Anon Ymous

Member
Joined
Feb 7, 2008
Messages
3,662
Location
Greece
Format
35mm
Andrew O'Neill said:
In my opinion, the Patterson is terrible for leaking, when it's inverted...
Click to expand...

I had the same opinion about them, but they're actually pretty good if you burp them. Very little to no leaking actually.

Of course, figure 8 ensures no leaking at all, so it's a no brainer in your case.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…