The end of Agfaphoto...is nigh.

Bob F. · Oct 20, 2005

Andy K said:
Is there an Ilford developer that can be diluted like Rodinal? I first used Rodinal for reasons of economy, getting 50-odd developments from a single bottle of dev saved me a lot of money. Now I use Rodinal because I love the negs it produces and I know it pretty much inside out. So I am not looking forward to having to use developers that don't give me the economy or look of Rodinal.

(I have also tried DD-X, but it is not as economical as Rodinal although I do like the negs it produces.)

I don't think any Ilford developer can be diluted to the extent that Rodinal can be. Ilford recommend Ilfosol S or ID-11 1+3 for sharpness (which I guess is what you want from Rodinal negs). For economy, if you do not want to make up from powder, I think Ilfotec LC29 is the most economical, mixed 1+19

Alternately, if you want to keep the Rodinal look, Retrophotographic stock Adox APH09 which is allegedly the original Rodinal formula.

Cheers, Bob.

Denis P. · Oct 20, 2005

I just purchased the last batch of Rodinal available locally. The shop manager told me on the phone that they were instructed not to take any more orders....

I got 3 large packs (10 bottles of 125 ml in each pack) - it should be enough for some time. Then we'll find some other manufacturer with similar formula (Calbe A09 or the above mentioned APH09)...

Makes me think whether we'll soon all be branded as "alternative photography" practitioners

I just hope Croatian Fotokemika (Efke films and Emaks paper) doesn't go down the drain...

Regards,

Denis

abeku · Oct 20, 2005

Denis P. said:
I just hope Croatian Fotokemika (Efke films and Emaks paper) doesn't go down the drain...

Denis

If they do, it would be personal disaster! I haven't heard anything about any financial problems regarding Fotokemika so I hope they are in a good shape. Have you heard anything regarding this matter, Denis?

Denis P. · Oct 20, 2005

abeku said:
If they do, it would be personal disaster! I haven't heard anything about any financial problems regarding Fotokemika so I hope they are in a good shape. Have you heard anything regarding this matter, Denis?

I check on them from time to time (every couple of months) via phone, when placing direct orders, and the people there assure me that they are planning to stay - no apparent problems.

They've completed the restructuring process (under the Croatian laws), and actually changed the name on the invoices I receive - it used to be "Fotokemika - under bankruptcy" (rough translation ), and now it's "Fotokemika nova".

So, they should be OK. They do mention that they will probably have to raise the prices, since the suppliers of raw materials (gelatine and whatnot) have increased theirs due to drop in demand and quantities, but that's old news, and was to be expected.

So far, they are OK

Keep your fingers crossed, though....

Denis

srs5694 · Oct 20, 2005

Andy K said:
Now I use Rodinal because I love the negs it produces and I know it pretty much inside out. So I am not looking forward to having to use developers that don't give me the economy or look of Rodinal.

Try Calbe R09 (available from J&C in the US), or Fomadon R09 (available from Dead Link Removed in the UK). I'm not sure if these are the same product advertised under different names, but I believe both are basically the original Rodinal formula (vs. one that's been "tweaked" over time by Agfa). The dilution is slightly different than that for Agfa's Rodinal, but I don't recall the details. Photographer's Formulary also has its own (there was a url link here which no longer exists) but the description sounds like it's a powder kit you mix yourself. Given the chemicals in Rodinal, I'm not sure if they'd ship internationally. Finally, you can mix your own; the formula is here, and I'm sure other places, as well. Be careful, though; mixing Rodinal requires handling potassium hydroxide, which is very nasty stuff.

In short, Rodinal users need not mourn too much over the demise of Agfa, at least not because of the demise of Rodinal. Something very similar to the current Agfa Rodinal will continue to be available from other sources and/or as a do-it-yourself mix. The same can't be said about the films and papers; if nobody buys up the formulas and continues selling them, they're gone.

Fotohuis · Oct 20, 2005

Calbe R09 is comming from Calbe in the former DDR (eastern Germany), it's more or less a copy of the original Rodinal. Fomadon R09 is comming from Foma Hradec Kralové, Czech Republic. http://www.foma.cz/foma/produkt/FotoDetail.asp?produktid=269&seznam=cernob_fot

So far no need for us importing chemicals from Foma due to the fact we have an excelent chemical Dutch factory Amaloco Photochemicals and Agfa was also on the corner. If we are going out of stock for Agfa Rodinal we will certainly change over to Fomadon R09 imported from the Czech Republic.

Best regards,

Robert

pentaxuser · Oct 20, 2005

My wife and I took a trip to Longleat Safari Park in the UK at the weekend on the spur of the moment. I had used the last of my Fuji colour neg film but thought "no problem,there will be plenty at the Park shop. These places usually have a range of Kodak and Fuji albeit at an expensive price. Very few non photographic shops seem to stock Agfa. Certainly none of the big supermarket chain in the U.K. do. That may be Agfa's problem.

Anyway I was surprised to find that the Park was exclusively Agfa film. So at least one tourist attraction had opted for Agfa. Anyway I had no choice and bought it. I have yet to develop and print from it.

Just as a matter of interest what can I expect from it compared to Fuji? Is it as punchy and warm? What is its colour signature? The subject matter was wild animals - no surprise - and the weather was bright but overcast with sunny intervals.

To be honest I don't suppose I would ever have tried Agfa but for the circumstances. Problem now is that even if I love it, I'd better buy lots as it will soon disappear.

Thanks for any comment so on its qualities.

Pentaxuser.

Dave Wooten · Oct 20, 2005

The Walgreens stores in Las Vegas are selling 24 exp iso color film called Studio 35 regularly 2.59 for 1.00 per roll.....the film is made in Germany for Walgreens...

also this morning I purchased 17 oz (500 ml) of rodinal for 6.95

dancqu · Oct 20, 2005

braxus said:
I find it interesting that Fuji would buy the technology from
Agfa if others on another site say Agfa has nothing to offer.
I've heard of this technology before and wondered what
ever came of it. I thought maybe the new tech films from
Fuji and Kodak incorporated some of this technology.

Very interesting that "what ever came of it". Reminds me of
the Cold Fusion excitement some years ago. There are a few
posting to this site and others who claim to have the inside
on what is going on. But not a word. I think it a very
important discovery. Why the lid on so tight?

From what little I've been able to glean from the WWW
the process is no more than the addition of some not
very exotic chemical to the emulsion. An easy three
stop speed increase. I remember thinking that it
could possibly be an at home treatment.

Perhaps that is reason for no news; the process, for
who knows why, is not amenable to mass production.
I'll likely follow up on the matter. Dan

Guillaume Zuili · Oct 20, 2005

I began printing with Record-Rapid 111, Portriga and Brovira. Since all all of these disapeared my main paper is their MCC.
I'm really attached with Agfa paper, they have a special touch that Ilford never had (in my eyes).
I feel miserable.

MattCarey · Oct 20, 2005

dancqu said:
Very interesting that "what ever came of it". Reminds me of
the Cold Fusion excitement some years ago. There are a few
posting to this site and others who claim to have the inside
on what is going on. But not a word. I think it a very
important discovery. Why the lid on so tight?

From what little I've been able to glean from the WWW
the process is no more than the addition of some not
very exotic chemical to the emulsion. An easy three
stop speed increase. I remember thinking that it
could possibly be an at home treatment.

Perhaps that is reason for no news; the process, for
who knows why, is not amenable to mass production.
I'll likely follow up on the matter. Dan

I did a pretty short patent search on Agfa and didn't find anything on this. Of course, I had to get some work done, so I didn't do a thorough job..

Matt

Woolliscroft · Oct 20, 2005

Anyone any idea if this will effect the processing of Scala? I know it was planned to stop next year anyway, but is this likely to be brought forward?

David.

dancqu · Oct 20, 2005

MattCarey said:
I did a pretty short patent search on Agfa
and didn't find anything on this.

I don't think Agfa had anything to do with the
discovery. They Own the patent. That
may make a difference. Dan

edz · Oct 21, 2005

Fotohuis said:
Calbe R09 is comming from Calbe in the former DDR (eastern Germany), it's more or less a copy of the original Rodinal.

Robert... You should know better... Its HARDLY a copy. Agfa Rodinal is a "copy" from a company that was first founded in the early 1950s by Bayer (IG Farben´s successor). The "original Agfa" was located in Bitterfeld and its chemicals were last made in the town of Calbe. The Calbe chemicals continue and their "R09" is based upon the "real" intellectual property of Agfa and the original proprietary formulas for Rodinal. The reason its called R09 and not Rodinal, just as the company came to be called OrWo and not Agfa was part of a settlement in 1964 with Bayer A.G. who too claimed rights to the tradename Agfa but had much more clout, especially in the United States (and the spiritual home of I.G.Farben's darkest past). R09 just as Agfa Rodinal in the west continued to be the object of continued evolutionary modifications. Both products are not identical to what they sold in the 1950s or 1960s. Given that only Calbe has a true lineage to the Agfa Filmfabrik it is clearly the, if there is an "original", "original" and Agfa Rodinal is a highly modified copy. The "fomulas" of both are proprietary. The so-called Rodinal formulas are not, and never were, the formulas for Rodinal.

modafoto · Oct 21, 2005

MattKing said:
Has anybody checked on Morten Damkjær (modafoto)? Is he all right? How are his spirits holding up?

Morten is currently in a coma and he is fed with 1+50 Rodinal. The blood samples show good development, but his density is still critical.

Greetings Hanne S. Damkjær, wife

Fotohuis · Oct 21, 2005

If he wants to order 112 bottles of Rodinal, he will be OK. Every morining 2 spoons and repeat it during the afternoon. Just before sleep the rest and he will feel better.

About I.G.; Calbe, ORWO and other WWII stories about the Rodinal rights, thanks for your statement so far.

Robert

abeku · Oct 21, 2005

modafoto said:
Morten is currently in a coma and he is fed with 1+50 Rodinal. The blood samples show good development, but his density is still critical.

Greetings Hanne S. Damkjær, wife

He's under constant agitation or calm stand development treatment?

Fotohuis · Oct 21, 2005

He's under constant agitation or calm stand development treatment?

shaked not stirred...........

This is our *NEWS* (Nieuws) announcement:

*** LAATSTE NIEUWS ****: ivm de aanstaande liquidatie van Agfa (photo) hebben wij een grote hoeveelheid Agfa Rodinal ingekocht. Deze unieke ontwikkelaar is op basis van Para-aminophenol, verdunning tussen 1+25 en 1+100. Rodinal 125ml 4,00 , Rodinal 500ml 9,00 Tweede fles 10% korting.
Rodinal is vrijwel onbeperkt houdbaar

http://www.FotohuisRoVo.nl

Have a nice translation.....

fred · Oct 21, 2005

Another rumour:
Everything will be moving to China and 20% of the manpower will be left...

Only a rumour from my local photoshop. [sic, what's in a name... ]

modafoto · Oct 21, 2005

abeku said:
He's under constant agitation or calm stand development treatment?

He has to remain still for 400 days now...then we will agitate him gently and fix him.

bogeyes · Oct 21, 2005

Try Morten with an intre-cranial injection of pyrocat-hd it will open his eyes and put some colour in his cheeks!

modafoto · Oct 21, 2005

bogeyes said:
Try Morten with an intre-cranial injection of pyrocat-hd it will open his eyes and put some colour in his cheeks!

Tried it...he bursted into flames...all that pyro was too much for him...

RIR (Rest In Rodinal)

JHannon · Oct 21, 2005

I heard that Morten is going to purchase all the remaining stock of Rodinal from Agfaphoto..... It will then be renamed "Mortenal"

Fotohuis · Oct 21, 2005

I am sorry to inform you that Rodinal is already out of stock by Agfaphoto. But thank you anyway for your hint to our new trade mark: RoVonal (TM).

Brac · Oct 25, 2005

pentaxuser said:
. Very few non photographic shops seem to stock Agfa. Certainly none of the big supermarket chain in the U.K. do. That may be Agfa's problem.

I hate to disagree with you but the supermarkets of Asda (UK's second largest supermarket chain) are always awash with Agfa colour films (both 35mm & APS) & recently they have been selling bags of five 24exp 35mm films for £5. Obviously if no-one rescues Agfa, which now looks unlikely, all this will change. Asda also stock plenty of Fuji & Kodak colour films too.

The end of Agfaphoto...is nigh.

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