The end of Agfaphoto...is nigh.

mikewhi · Oct 19, 2005

Flotsam said:
The Formulary offers a Rodinal clone doesn't it? If not, I'm sure that they will.

I recall a formula that advertises itself as a Rodinal close, yes.
I just got off the phone and ordered all the Rodinal and Neutol WA from the local camera stores. Enough to last me quite a while.

It looks like that coating rod idea is looking better and better.

-Mike

df cardwell · Oct 19, 2005

Agfa

Agfa always did things in a unique way: Portriga, APX 100, and Rodinal.

Well, Portriga is gone, and irreplaceable.

Rodinal is easy to make, and to buy.

APX 100, another tough one to lose. The special quality it is it's color sensitivity: if one needs to make a single exposure and record every complexion on the planet, flatteringly, APX 100 is the film. It is the ultimate "people film".

Losing THIS film ( and the dull similarities of those which remain ) make a good case for digital.

.

Gerald Koch · Oct 19, 2005

jrong said:
Anybody have any thoughts on the Calbe RO9 "Rodinal" formula?

It's not the same as what is currently marketed as Rodinal which contains potassium bromide. R09 is said to be closer to the original version of Rodinal. The name R09 stands for the 9th Rezept (recipe) in the Agfa formula book.

Ara Ghajanian · Oct 19, 2005

I just started using APX100 and 400 this year and love the results. I think I may buy up a few bulk rolls of APX100. How long do you think bulk rolls of APX would last in a refrigerator?
Ara

Mongo · Oct 19, 2005

Although I love Rodinal, Neutol-WA, and Agfa's VC fiber paper, I've been working toward substitutes for all of them for the last few months as I've believed this day was fast approaching. The thing that I found amusing in the first article was this quote:

During the last few weeks, negotiations with potential investors failed, obviously due to disagreements about the value of the licence for marketing the AgfaPhoto brand.

I guess that the folks at Agfa didn't want to admit that their name was pretty much worthless since they'd been dumping products for so long. I've been pissed off at them since the end of APX25, and ending production of all 120 film while selling off you 35mm stocks at bargain-basement prices is not the way to build the value of your brand name. I think everyone I know now associates the Agfa name with, "A disaster waiting to happen"...holding out for more money for a name like that wasn't too wise.

I do hope that someone out there picks up their formulas and continues to produce some of their products (I still have a couple of bulk rolls of APX100 buried in the 'fridge), but if they think their name is worth a bundle then I can't imagine what they think their product formulas are worth.

(Sorry...I'm in pain today, and that always leaves me a little cynical.)

wildbill · Oct 19, 2005

Just returned from Freestyle with all the Rodinal they had in the store. I feel a little bit better. I'm picking up a small freezer tonight for a "microwave stand" that will also hold tons of film.

aldevo · Oct 19, 2005

Their foibles in B&W had little to do with their demise.

AgfaPhoto's shining star was it's C-41 processing machine and lab work. A few years back they had an exclusive deal with Wal-Mart (they account for about 1 out of every 12 rolls of print film processed in the USA) and several other major retail chains.

Sorry to say they lost almost all those deals to Noritsu, Kodak, and Fuji. I don't know the reasons why.

Agfa E-6 and C-41 films have been losing market share for the past decade in just about every market. It's been a while since I've come across anybody in the USA using Agfa paper.

aldevo · Oct 19, 2005

Jim Chinn said:
Watch for the other shoe to drop at Kodak between now and the end of the next quarter with regards to either discontinuing film or selling off the remaining business.

They lost $1.03 billion predominantly due to ever-increasing declines in film sales and $900 million in accounting charges.

Who is going to buy the film business or provide them with exit financing for it?

Kodak now has very little alternative but to keep doing what they're doing because their debt rating is so awful it's doubtful they can drum up the finances to do much of anything.

Dave Parker · Oct 19, 2005

aldevo said:
Sorry to say they lost almost all those deals to Noritsu, Kodak, and Fuji. I don't know the reasons why.

The reason why, is because they lied about the capibilities of their machines and the machines were junk, the last store I worked in with an agfa machine, the darn thing broke down about every 6-7 days, then we had to wait at least a weeks to even get a tech on site to see what was going on...

they should have stuck to film and paper, they may have been alot better off a this point in history.

Dave

gasha · Oct 19, 2005

Anybody knows how long i can store unopened bottle of Rodinal?

Mongo · Oct 19, 2005

gasha said:
Anybody knows how long i can store unopened bottle of Rodinal?

"Forever" seems to be the common wisdom. I've used Rodinal from bottles that were opened for years with no precautions taken to remove the air from the bottles, and the developer worked like new.

srs5694 · Oct 19, 2005

Ara Ghajanian said:
I just started using APX100 and 400 this year and love the results. I think I may buy up a few bulk rolls of APX100. How long do you think bulk rolls of APX would last in a refrigerator?

If you freeze it (rather than just refrigerate it), ISO 100 film should last quite a few years -- probably over a decade -- with little loss of quality. ISO 400 film wouldn't fare quite as well, since the big problem with long-term cold storage of film is cosmic rays, which tend to fog the film, and ISO 400 film is more sensitive than ISO 100 film. Even so, freezing ISO 400 film is worthwhile if you intend to keep it for long.

MattKing · Oct 19, 2005

Rodinal?

Has anybody checked on Morten Damkjær (modafoto)? Is he all right? How are his spirits holding up?

dancqu · Oct 19, 2005

rduraoc said:
And I was really starting to like Agfa papers.
And using a lot of APX100...

Fuji is interested. Besides, Agfa holds the patents for
the new technology high speed film emulsions. Perhaps
we will see something come of it. Agfa has just been
sitting on it. Dan

Maine-iac · Oct 19, 2005

clogz said:
Sad news on Agfaphoto.

http://www.worldofphoto.com/meldung.htm$N18223

Here's another link to Forbes magazine.

www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2005/10/19/afx2285533.html>

Sad day for MCC Classic lovers unless someone else buys that piece of the action.

braxus · Oct 19, 2005

dancqu said:
Fuji is interested. Besides, Agfa holds the patents for
the new technology high speed film emulsions. Perhaps
we will see something come of it. Agfa has just been
sitting on it. Dan

I find it interesting that Fuji would buy the technology from Agfa if others on another site say Agfa has nothing to offer. I've heard of this technology before and wondered what ever came of it. I thought maybe the new tech films from Fuji and Kodak incorporated some of this technology. Regardless I have not read anything that seems to indicate Fuji wants to buy Agfas film tech, but only its lab machine division.

cvik · Oct 19, 2005

What will happen to the new Rollei films produced at geveart?
I doubt Rollei would spend money on new films produced at Gevaert if Agfa is closing for good (unless of course they intend to buy that part).

I really don't know what to do without Scala. I will miss RSX for color but I can substitute it with some Kodak films. APX100 is good, but i rarely use it and can live without it. I will miss Agfa paper and Agfa Neutol WA. Chemistry is however not a big problem as one can always find worthy substitues or buy the chemicals to make one.

On the positive side (if there is any), fewer producers may make it easier for the few remaining companies. I do hope one of them buys AgfaPhoto, or at least the film and paper division.

Jim Chinn · Oct 19, 2005

aldevo said:
They lost $1.03 billion predominantly due to ever-increasing declines in film sales and $900 million in accounting charges.

Who is going to buy the film business or provide them with exit financing for it?

Kodak now has very little alternative but to keep doing what they're doing because their debt rating is so awful it's doubtful they can drum up the finances to do much of anything.

There is probably no one out there who will buy the film business, unless a player steps up from China or Southeast Asia and pays Kodak pennies on the dollar for the film coating lines. But stock holders will not stand for billion dollar losses every quarter. Quickest way to stem the bleeding is to cut payroll. Layoff all the film workers is a logical first step. Kodak can then do a few things. Sit on the shuttered facilities waiting for a buyer. Find someone else to purchase the machines and produce Kodak products. But probably the avenue they will take will be to dismantle the machines, sell the buildings and real estate and take a one time hit against earnings.

Agfa's machines stand a better chance of being purchased if only because they are in closer proximity to possible new mfg locations in Eastern Europe.

aldevo · Oct 19, 2005

Jim Chinn said:
There is probably no one out there who will buy the film business, unless a player steps up from China or Southeast Asia and pays Kodak pennies on the dollar for the film coating lines. But stock holders will not stand for billion dollar losses every quarter. Quickest way to stem the bleeding is to cut payroll. Layoff all the film workers is a logical first step. Kodak can then do a few things. Sit on the shuttered facilities waiting for a buyer. Find someone else to purchase the machines and produce Kodak products. But probably the avenue they will take will be to dismantle the machines, sell the buildings and real estate and take a one time hit against earnings.

Agfa's machines stand a better chance of being purchased if only because they are in closer proximity to possible new mfg locations in Eastern Europe.

Jim-

You're missing A LOT here. Kodak does not survive without film right now - PERIOD. Without depreciation or the cashflow generated by film it's out of business tomorrow. Maybe sooner.

The billion dollar losses were mostly due to a single $900 million accounting charge.

Who is going to buy Agfa's film-based plant, property, and equipment in E. Europe??

Sorry but your analysis doesn't make much sense at all.

ChrisC · Oct 20, 2005

It's a shame. Just after I finally got my FP4+ negs looking good in Rodinal, and after I try MCP310 RC paper and love it. I can't say I'm surprised, though. I'll just have to head down to my local camera store tomorrow and show my support for Ilford by buying some more film and trying one of their film developers.

Curt · Oct 20, 2005

I first used Rodinal with Panatomic-x and then found a new film called Adox. I researched it out in Popular Photography and found a fifties article on it. I found the new film was really old. Same with the developer.

The Agfa web site looks like the Kodak site. They are all D I G I T A L. They could save a lot of money if they just used the same site.

I guess it's back to the old standby philosophy; conflict, accommodation, assimilation.

Quinten · Oct 20, 2005

Seems Fuji will place a bid today, agfa recently turned down a bid from an english company. (forgot the name.)

So who says 120 will not be made in teh future? It's up to the future owner. Fuji APX100 would sound fun to me.

cheers!
Quinten

Daniel Lawton · Oct 20, 2005

I just got done making some prints with MCC and now I read this. Great. I guess we all better start hoping that the gods smile on Ilford and somehow allow them to make it. I hope at least one major manufacturer survives. As I understand it, the key to making quality film and paper is producing them in large numbers so as to maintain consistency of the emulsion. The little companies seem plagued with issues like pinholes, batch inconsistency and other problems because it's hard to nail down the process when you only make small production runs from time to time. I hope the day never comes when we are forced to accept these things but I guess its inevitable.

Andy K · Oct 20, 2005

Is there an Ilford developer that can be diluted like Rodinal? I first used Rodinal for reasons of economy, getting 50-odd developments from a single bottle of dev saved me a lot of money. Now I use Rodinal because I love the negs it produces and I know it pretty much inside out. So I am not looking forward to having to use developers that don't give me the economy or look of Rodinal.

(I have also tried DD-X, but it is not as economical as Rodinal although I do like the negs it produces.)

Fotohuis · Oct 20, 2005

What will happen to the new Rollei films produced at geveart?

Rollei Infra Red is produced at Gevaert in Mortsel. Gevaert is not involved at all in this mess!

I doubt Rollei would spend money on new films produced at Gevaert if Agfa is closing for good (unless of course they intend to buy that part).

Indeed maybe an option for Rollei/Maco to access the regular B&W market for less special films in more quantity when they buy one production APX line.

I really don't know what to do without Scala

Try Fomapan R100, or Rollei R3 in reversal bath development. Scala, R3 and R100 are going without any problems in the Fomapan R100 reversal kit.

As precaution our Fotohuis bought the whole Rodinal stock in Germany from the most major supplier of Agfa products. We will see how things are more or less terminated by the end of this year and I am sure some parts of Agfa Photo will be sold to some interested companies.

Best regards,

Robert

The end of Agfaphoto...is nigh.

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