The Disaster of Color Photography

[ParkerSmithPhoto]

A holiday story for all of you lovers of the C-Print.

I spent the entire month of December (so far) photographing a corporate art collection here in Atlanta.

Among the photographers represented were some very significant names in color photography: Meyerowitz, Shore, Misrach, Jim Dine, Andrew Moore plus several regional artists who work in color. All of these images were collected in the 1980s, all were C-Prints, and all had deteriorated to such a state that to call them photographs any more would be joking. The prints were in almost any sense completely worthless, unless one likes looking at faded, horribly color shifted images.

There's a possibility some credulous collector of "vintage prints" might be duped into wasting money on one of these prints, but in my opinion they were only worthy of the trash can. I have seen Shore prints in similar condition at a local gallery and wondered if anyone would be stupid enough to buy them.

Also in the collection were many B&W photographers, including Bruce Barnbaum, Michael Spano and others. Every single one of these silver prints looked like they just came out of the darkroom, not a flaw anywhere.

To be fair, there were some Cibachromes by Sandy Skoglund and a few others that have held up quite well. A bit of shifting, but not significant enough to render them worthless.

I can't imagine wasting my time and money and my life working in the C-Print medium, only to watch it turn into junk. (If you really want to make long-lasting color prints, there is a way to do that which cannot be mentioned here.)

By the way, Kodak Endura is crap, too. Trust me.

My apologies to all you lovers of C-Prints. Sorry to poop on your holidays.

 

[AgX]

(If you really want to make long-lasting color prints, there is a way to do that which cannot be mentioned here.)

That medium is so new, its longevity is not yet proven.

 

[bvy]

I don't know if makes sense to compare the materials of 50 years ago with those used to make C prints today. At that time, I would guess that folks turned to Cibachrome or dye transfer for true archival color prints. Also, it seems hasty to make such a sweeping generalization based on the prints in a single collection. Who knows for sure how they were acquired, used or stored. I get where you're coming from though. It does seem alarming.

 

[AgX]

Deterioration of colour art prints nevertheless is something well known in the art scene, including its legal implications (collectors want a fine print).

 

[TSSPro]

Oh no....poop on my holidays.....!

I knew that RA-4 prints wouldn't hold up forever, but I didn't think they could degrade to being worthless in such a short period of time. I assume UV exposure, ambient conditions, and materials that came in contact with the prints would all have contributed to their degradation; were these images on display for most of their lives? In storage? Private collections?

Still strikes me as unexpected that would happen so quickly. It's a shame that such works have wound up in that condition.

There are other ways of making color photographic prints that are extremely stable, but I think of them as more of a printing process ex- Dye Transfer and Chromolithography. Ok - both are antiquated processes that are highly specialized that need hard to come by materials, but that has rarely stopped anyone in this community before.

 

[Vilk]

That medium is so new, its longevity is not yet proven.

... not so obviously disproven either

 

[markbarendt]

Well I have two thoughts.

1. It's a photo, not a painting, many can be reprinted.
2. If one prefers color photos, the B&W option is irrelevant.

 

[AgX]

Well I have two thoughts.

1. It's a photo, not a painting, many can be reprinted

The example given in this thread is about the art world.
And here reprinting is very tricky.
It has a lot of implications in the legal and collecting field.

 

[markbarendt]

The example given in this thread is about the art world.
And here reprinting is very tricky.
It has a lot of implications in the legal and collecting field.

I understand that. Deterioration and damage are risks taken by any collector.

 

[pentaxuser]

I can't imagine wasting my time and money and my life working in the C-Print medium, only to watch it turn into junk. (If you really want to make long-lasting color prints, there is a way to do that which cannot be mentioned here.)

By the way, Kodak Endura is crap, too. Trust me.

My apologies to all you lovers of C-Prints. Sorry to poop on your holidays.

A holiday story for all of you lovers of the C-Print.

Can I ask: Does the first sentence above indicate that you have never tried RA4 printing yet and you are basing your conclusions on this one exhibition?
Can you give us your evidence on Kodak Endura and does this sentiment that it is crap extend to Fuji paper or is it simply Kodak Endura?

I may be reading too much into your post but to use an analogy of human relationships, it is almost as if you have suddenly obtained evidence that the person you previously thought of as being faithful had turned out to be anything but.

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Bob Carnie]

Single most reason why I am making tri colour gum bichromate prints.

There is a lot of denial by many famous contemporary photographers. And a lot of respected Gallerists and Curators who will shift the blame .
Its kind of like the King who wears no clothes, no one is brave enough to say he is naked.

 

[Bob Carnie]

Well I have two thoughts.

1. It's a photo, not a painting, many can be reprinted.
2. If one prefers color photos, the B&W option is irrelevant.

1. - This is going on behind closed doors more than you think, some are lucky enough to be hooked up to a good printing system.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

I'd bet that in 30 or 40 years there will be a forum post somewhere talking about how badly early digital prints have faded.....

 

[Bob Carnie]

I'd bet that in 30 or 40 years there will be a forum post somewhere talking about how badly early digital prints have faded.....

That is already happening, no need to wait.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Yes, color images degrade, but that much indicates bad processing or bad keeping conditions. I have prints ranging over 50+ years that look pretty much like they did the day they were made. They were all properly processed, I can assure you. And, Endura is measurably better as is the Fuji Crystal Archive.

PE

 

[ic-racer]

I can't imagine wasting my time and money and my life working in the C-Print medium, only to watch it turn into junk. (If you really want to make long-lasting color prints, there is a way to do that which cannot be mentioned here.)

I got my MFA in the 1980s and was a "B&W/Archival" snob. I'm sure a lot of my classmates thought I was a jerk. If your observations are the norm, maybe I really can say "I told you so..."

BTW I had some color in my MFA thesis show. Cibachromes!

 

[Les Sarile]

You see some color prints by professionals from the 80's deteriorated and you conclude that this applies to all?

I have many from the 60's on up - all I am sure where drug store prints and not kept in the best way, and they are not bad at all.

It always amazes me that someone can make one observation sample and make a sweeping conclusion.

 

[Les Sarile]

I got my MFA in the 1980s and was a "B&W/Archival" snob. I'm sure a lot of my classmates thought I was a jerk. If your observations are the norm, maybe I really can say "I told you so..."

I would suggest not to say I told you so unless you want to confirm what they thought . . .

 

[Sirius Glass]

Where do I start? Where the prints properly fixed and washed when made? Where the prints mounted with not acidic archival materials? How were they stored? Humidity? Temperature? Exposure to sun light? Exposure to fluorescent light? Pollution? People smoking in the area?

 

[Photo Engineer]

Many B&W prints kept in archival conditions are deteriorating due to pollutants in the current air that were not considered a factor 50 years ago. Stability testing just began about 15 years ago including those factors.

PE

 

[Ian Grant]

The best, in terms of most realistic, colour images I've ever seen were Autochromes, followed by Kodachrome II but only in the right lighting. K25 was a bit to real too much colour but still an excellent film.

I actually much preferred the pre C41 and E6 Agfa Colour films, far more natural colours compared to Kpodak. Fuji were somewhere in between which was why they almost wiped out Kodak out in many markets/counties.

The biggest issue with colour films is there's no contrast control unlike B&W, and this is where digital output has been a major improvement. Kodak knew how to do this with film and conventional colour darkroom prints but it wasn't ever viable commercially.

Ian

 

[semi-ambivalent]

Many B&W prints kept in archival conditions are deteriorating due to pollutants in the current air that were not considered a factor 50 years ago. Stability testing just began about 15 years ago including those factors.

PE

PE,
Are you able to throw out a couple or three of those pollutants? I'll assume various sulphur based compounds are troublesome, but I would not be surprised to learn plugin air fresheners are emitting something that is turning out to be bad stuff for photographs.

s-a

 

[mshchem]

I have my Dad's Kodachrome slides 60 years old still good as new. He always kept them dark, dry and at room temp. The Kodachrome prints that he had made and displayed in normal room light, no UV just normal room light, these are almost invisible. Just very faint image, the small prints kept in a drawer look good. This is no big surprise.Black and white color seperation negatives on polyester base if you plan on keeping for 500 years. C prints properly processed and stored will last a lifetime. But if you hang them where theres light, heat and fumes they won't last.
Mike

 

[AgX]

PE,
Are you able to throw out a couple or three of those pollutants? I'll assume various sulphur based compounds are troublesome,...

Sulfur compounds are rather classic agents as they were caused by burning coal. Modern fuels are sulfur reduced.

 

[MattKing]

The Toronto Maple Leafs haven't won the Cup since 1967.
And the Vancouver Canucks have never won the Cup.
Now that is a disaster!
There are a lot of artistic endeavours and materials that have finite lives. And some of those lives are relatively short. If there is any "disaster" it is that some expect colour C prints to have the same durability as black and white materials. They don't.