The demise of OLYMPUS camera business

[BrianShaw]

May be a threat, in loosing a discrete device called as a camera and as well as the existing business around it??

Understood... but that only matters if one feels specific gear is more important to the act of making images.

I like cameras and film (a lot) but make more (and sometimes better) images with an iPhone. Right now there are probably more mobile phone photographers and videographers than folks like us who like the traditional gear. I’m not predicting that to change much... if anything it will become “the only way” before too much more time passes.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

I expect Nikon will be the next to go...

With luck not because...

...Do you really think there’s a valid (both sales quantity and profitability) market for new film cameras?

I'm currently waiting for B&H to get in the next batch of four F6 cameras it orders and receives roughly twice a year so I can purchase one. Reported annual worldwide production of those is 250 units. I wouldn't expect Nikon to manufacture them if doing so weren't profitable. While not inexpensive, the F6 isn't in the same league as a Leica.

...Right now there are probably more mobile phone photographers and videographers than folks like us who like the traditional gear...

That statement puts you in the lead for an "understatement of the century" award. No, make that of the millennium.

 

[BrianShaw]

... next batch of four F6 cameras it orders and receives roughly twice a year so I can purchase one. Reported annual worldwide production of those is 250 units. I wouldn't expect Nikon to manufacture them if doing so weren't profitable.

At that rate I wouldn’t expect them to be continuing “production” too much longer. Those are very low numbers. What do you think the profit margin is at both the retailer and manufacturers level... not to mention whatever gets sucked out by middlemen?

Makes me want to liken it to a ultra-high-end custom auto manufacturer. Even Maybach could keep going only for so long.

And when you get yours, I’m sure it will be nice!

 

[Sal Santamaura]

At that rate I wouldn’t expect them to be continuing “production” too much longer. Those are very low numbers. What do you think the profit margin is at both the retailer and manufacturers level... not to mention whatever gets sucked out by middlemen?...

Henning Serger's posts here at PHOTRIO are the source of those data. I can't find the recent thread in which he reported 250 units per year, but this four year old one described Nikon's Sendai plant and how it's set up to make the F6:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/nikon-f6-old-vs-new.140237/page-3#post-1838682​

Somewhere else in PHOTRIO's archive there's an exchange where a European F6 buyer (possibly Henning himself) was asked why they special-ordered their camera from a local dealer and had to wait for it, rather than just buying one from B&H. One of those four-unit batches had apparently just been received by B&H, so immediate retail delivery was possible at that moment. The answer was that the B&H price was substantially higher than what was charged at a local European dealer. So I guess Nikon's profit margin (it distributes itself in the U.S.) and B&H's margin are more than adequate.

...And when you get yours, I’m sure it will be nice!

Thanks. First, B&H needs to get some so I can order one.

 

[baachitraka]

Understood... but that only matters if one feels specific gear is more important to the act of making images.

I like cameras and film (a lot) but make more (and sometimes better) images with an iPhone. Right now there are probably more mobile phone photographers and videographers than folks like us who like the traditional gear. I’m not predicting that to change much... if anything it will become “the only way” before too much more time passes.

MF or small format is too much of a compromise in comparison to LF and not to mention about smartphones.

But the comfort overrules all the compromises with smartphones. :-|

As I age I may want to slow down and enjoy looking all the details on the scene through naked eye and make images.

I expect the camera of all format coexist in the future and there will be market for everything.

 

[BrianShaw]

So I guess Nikon's profit margin (it distributes itself in the U.S.) and B&H's margin are more than adequate.

often, as I know you know, the loss of one business unit is propped up by profit of another business unit. That can persist until some wise accountant says enough-is-enough.

im guessing that’s what went on at Olympus.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

often, as I know you know, the loss of one business unit is propped up by profit of another business unit. That can persist until some wise accountant says enough-is-enough.

im guessing that’s what went on at Olympus.

Thom Hogan seems to agree with this analysis. His latest weekly commentary on photographic news (Friday June 26, 2020) summarizes how Olympus likely wants to divest the camera operation while keeping the brand and intellectual rights in Japan.

http://www.bythom.com

He noted that in the previous fiscal year, Olympus only sold 340,000 cameras. This year with the virus, sales are surely way down for Olympus and all the other companies. I am afraid we may see more shakeup among the traditional camera companies soon.

 

[Billy Axeman]

Another reason I saw for this selloff was the pressure from an activist shareholder (ValueAct Capital ?).

 

[rayonline_nz]

Many would just get a larger sensor camera or simply use their phones. With Panasonic getting in with FF with the L mount it would be interesting what they do with M4/3.

I think a small group who are spending hours outside with a few F2.8 zooms the M4/3 was more portable whereas the larger systems were quite heavy and large. But there is only so many of them. Many people on holidays etc or street photographers may not want to take that much lenses anyway. Ie walking out for the day and spending 10hrs with that camera bag with that kit. Many people in general might spend certain time with their "big" kit with the larger formats, so only so many people would actually walk out for the day with this big kit and spend the whole day with it.

I've watched various videos by Olympus Visionaries while they acknowledge it is not the the same as FF they argue the point that M4/3 are suitable and sufficient for commercial work. Maybe. The argument is that they want more depth of field than less and still able to handhold it. But ... I think at the end of the day provided all the work is professional most people don't care for more blur or less blur. If provided an option they prob want more blur. Commercially, tripod and lighting equipment is seen as an asset than a liability they are professional tools. Remember with larger sensor they are better in high ISO so you can raise the ISO to up the f stop for more depth of field too.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Fuji's growth was largely due to the success of their Instax gear. They still are at 6% or so overall.

Are they keeping the Instax? Will it continue o be produced?

 

[Auer]

Are they keeping the Instax? Will it continue o be produced?

https://www.fujifilm.com/us/en/consumer/instax

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

At that rate I wouldn’t expect them to be continuing “production” too much longer. Those are very low numbers. What do you think the profit margin is at both the retailer and manufacturers level... not to mention whatever gets sucked out by middlemen?

Makes me want to liken it to a ultra-high-end custom auto manufacturer. Even Maybach could keep going only for so long.

And when you get yours, I’m sure it will be nice!

There's also the cost of lenses and other ancillary equipment they sell. Plus, R&D is over; there are no updates. It reminds me of the Epson scanners that really haven't changed much in years. PLus there's the cache that Nikon has as the famous 35mm camera company still making film cameras that works with all their old lenses. Like a loss leader.

 

[jvo]

olympus always made great, innovative, and solid products - too bad.

 

[jvo]

I did some extensive research lately to determine which camera to purchase as a replacement for my aged Pentax, and what amazed me most is the relentless and consistent efforts of so many people to predict the demise of Olympus, including some rumor sites. It probably attributed to the unfortunate events we are facing now. Thank you very much.

Despite this negative behavior I came to the conclusion that MFT is a very attractive system and decided to purchase a beautiful Olympus camera, including some lenses and accessories. I can tell you, all my expectations became true, and I don't regret it for a second. I actually also purchased a 12mm M.Zuiko after the news broke, to complete my system, and I intend to enjoy my camera for many years to come.

I wish all the people from Olympus Imaging good luck and I hope they can retain the strength pushing their brand, to keep up their good service for now, and perhaps to work out a new future for the MFT system next year.

good on you!

 

[unityofsaints]

Pretty much, Some folks invested heavily in to that system and frankly I never personally understood the appeal that M4/3 has besides possibly a affordable "digital back" for older lenses of various mounts thru adapters.
But these days you can get a Sony Full Frame to do that for under a grand...

It comes into its own for video. Being able to shoot stills is just a bonus. I do agree however that it has an image problem because full frame is considered superiour in spite of its hefty price tag and significant bulk.

 

[Auer]

It comes into its own for video. Being able to shoot stills is just a bonus. I do agree however that it has an image problem because full frame is considered superiour in spite of its hefty price tag and significant bulk.

Well you can get the Sony A7 II for under a grand, USD. 599 grams. 127 x 96 x 60 mm. This is where we are heading. Cheap full frame.

Edit: Comparison: https://cameradecision.com/compare/Olympus-OM-D-E-M1-Mark-III-vs-Sony-Alpha-7-II

 

[unityofsaints]

Well you can get the Sony A7 II for under a grand, USD. 599 grams. 127 x 96 x 60 mm. This is where we are heading. Cheap full frame.

Edit: Comparison: https://cameradecision.com/compare/Olympus-OM-D-E-M1-Mark-III-vs-Sony-Alpha-7-II

You can get micro four thirds for like 250$ used. My GH2 with the missing screen was 50$. It's a different class of camera.

 

[halfaman]

I had in my hands a friend's OM-D equipment and it is really tiny, camera AND lenses. Nothing to do with any Sony mirrorless regarding size. It felt well made and robust.

 

[MattKing]

At the risk of being mistaken for Les Sarile, here is a comparison shot of a borrowed Canon 5D Mark II (complete with grip and RRS plate), a later Canon autofocus film camera, an OM-4T and an almost current OMD micro 4/3.
The OM-D is a bit shorter than the OM-4T, considerably narrower, and definitely less deep.
And the irony is, of course, that this is taken with a cel phone.

 

[CMoore]

I was smitten by the OM-1... back in the 1980’s. The small size was attractive to me. But I bought a Nikon F-3 and slapped a motor drive on it so I guess small and light really weren’t all that attractive. The F-3 has served me well ever since so I never looked back on that decision.

Wow.... are you still shooting that same body.?
If so, that is a long haul.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

At the risk of being mistaken for Les Sarile, here is a comparison shot of a borrowed Canon 5D Mark II (complete with grip and RRS plate), a later Canon autofocus film camera, an OM-4T and an almost current OMD micro 4/3.
The OM-D is a bit shorter than the OM-4T, considerably narrower, and definitely less deep.
And the irony is, of course, that this is taken with a cel phone.
View attachment 249501

Don't discount the size factor in the full-frame cameras. A lot of the gear guys feel macho with an enormous, bulbous "full-frame" camera equipped with a penile cannon-like zoom lens. The smaller complete package of µ3/4 just did not do it for them, even though they posted most pictures on social media (but still not enough pixels, equivalence, dynamic range, card slots, ISO-cheating, whatever).

 

[ph]

I will join the Olympus wake, but not grieve. The OM bellows were much better than Novoflex and the ringflash with its cross polarizer was an excellent piece of equipment, but my OM4 ate batteries.

The PenF digital is a useful "digital back" for analog era lenses (except for its buttons having an unfortunate tendency to interfere with my focussing.)

I ditched my first fullframe digital Kodak-something (too much noise) and gave away my FFCanon to a strong grendchild. It was too big and cumbersome for the digital snaps I wanted , so I bought an Olympus.

Right now i have with me an R8 loaded with film with five of its very heavy lenses but they can also be utilized on the olympus and with internal sensor jiggling I can often do without a tripod..

With Olympus production gone, no chance of getting a barebones and small non-autofocus, almost buttonless , but -high quality PenF successor, but presumably no market for such devices.

p.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

With Olympus production gone, no chance of getting a barebones and small non-autofocus, almost buttonless , but -high quality PenF successor, but presumably no market for such devices.

Don't give up yet. Olympus is still making cameras and lenses. The sale to the financial group is sometime in the future.