The (Canon) F-one-kenstein project...

[Laurent]

So I bought a "for parts" F1 camera to have a donor for the main F1 which had a damaged top cover which blocked the film counter (a pity since I bought it in a very good shape, only with little brassing, from Manual Cameras)

Since the camera cost me 50€, and this is the price of a NOS top cover, I think I have nothing to lose, and since the donor camera is almost working, I'll try to fix it.

The donor is a F1 "old", the receiver a F1n (ratcheted winding lever with a plastic tip)

At the moment I'm in a discovery phase to list what is wrong with it:

- damaged right top cover (coming from the F1n)
- damaged left top cover, which makes opening the back very hard (just checked today, before this I was not sure)
- stick self-timer, which messes with the shutter release.
- missing ball bearing for the shutter lock
- reported bad high speeds with curtains overlaping
- rotten foam almost everywhere
- no finder
- no screen

 

[MattKing]

Thread title tweaked for clarity - hope I got it right .

 

[Laurent]

Thanks !

 

[Laurent]

Little progress for the moment, I managed to peel the leatherette to remove the self-timer, which seems stuck...

In the meantime I secured some springs from Alcomex, with the right diameter but a bit too long. Butchering with a pair of clippers gave me a spring that's OK on the other "main" F1, even though the ball bearing does not "snap" as much as it did before.

I also managed to "fix" my winding lever. When changing the top cover I did not record two details, one was the position of the washer that couples the lever to the shaft, and the other the order in which to "spring washer" and the plain washer are put on top of the winding lever.

I discovered this the first time I used the speed finder, when I found the lever very hard to get hold of. Seems my memory is not always serving me well for physical objects. I found the finder was too obstrusive, and it's only when I tried the "plain" finder again that I realised something went wrong. So here are 4 images showing how NOT to put the washer and the right position.

Wrong lever position

And the corresponding WRONG position of the washer

The right position for the lever, for the record. I feel sorry for the scratch, the camera was pristine when I got it, but it's getting used so bumps and scratches may be unavoidable...

And how the washer should sit

Concerning the washers on top of the level, the right order seems to be that the spring washer is immediately on top of the lever, then the plain washer and then the retaining screw. I tried not to overtighten that screw so that the lever gets nicely back to position, and hope it will not get loose...

So many things to learn working on these mechanical wonders!

 

[Andreas Thaler]

Good luck on this adventure trip! You didn't choose a camera with a too simple structure.

Please keep us up to date

Are you working according to the repair manual?

 

[Laurent]

I did not really choose the camera for a project, it's just that I needed spare parts for my F1, and thought this one was too good to be just a spares provider (I triggers at all speeds, is reported to have overlapping curtains at high speeds, has some other issues but seems close to functional)

I'm trying to make my way through the manual and some videos, at the moment at least it's a kind of adventure to see what I can learn in the process.

I'm afraid I need to remove the mirror box to get access to the self timer, which may take me some time.

 

[Laurent]

You didn't choose a camera with a too simple structure.

As a mater of fact, do you have recommendations for a simple camera for learning? If I can one day make this F1 my backup camera I'll be delighted, but rime does not really matter.

I have a Pentax SV I was given by a friend and would love to get back to work, but the sentimental value is too high for me to risk ruining it.

If it was a FD mount camera that would be better for my bank account, as I have enough lenses in this mount.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

As a mater of fact, do you have recommendations for a simple camera for learning?

The Minolta X cameras would be a possibility. They are relatively inexpensive, of good built quality and the electronics reduce the mechanics, meaning the structure is clearer. The screws are also easy to loosen.

 

[Laurent]

Thanks Andreas for the recommendation. Don't know if I'll make the experience, time flies so fast... But I'd love to be able to fix my cameras.

At the moment I'm stuck with the F1-kenstein one, it seems the camera has been dismantled before I bought it. At least one screw is missing on the rewind crank mechanism, and more annoyingly one lever seems to be jammed and stuck: the DOF preview lever never gets back to its resting position, and this seems to be a mechanical issue as it feels very solid.

The aperture lever (top right normally, at least on my working F1) is stuck down for some reason.

The lever seems to hit the camera's casting, and I can't remove it since one screw is very stubborn. The head is already somewhat stripped, despite using a JIS screwdriver. Heat from a soldering iron did not help, nor did IPA.

The lever prevents me from getting further to removing the mirror box, which is needed to unleash the self-timer which is jammed... I'll try some degryp'oil to see if it helps...

Something strange also is I can't see the meter needle, but may be it's because I can't mount a lens due to the DOF lever being stuck...

 

[Andreas Thaler]

These are the projects that make you quietly put down the screwdriver and put them aside, well packaged. Meanwhile, the work continues, unconsciously, in the head. One day you know what to do and do it

 

[ic-racer]

Slotted screw driver can exert more force. Try making a slot in the screw.

 

[Laurent]

Thanks for the suggestion, this is what I did yesterday. This plus 2 hours of thin oil did the trick. I have to adjust the images before I can post. Currently making my way through (very very) very sticky grease in the mirror box...

 

[Laurent]

So... the much awaited progress report !

I first made a nice blue dress for F-one-kenstein.

This protected the body from damages, so that I could create a "nice" (read: effective) slot for the screw driver.

And this is what allowed me to go further in dismantling the camera.

 

[Laurent]

Today I was home alone, so I had time and could invade the kitchen (the enlargers desk is too low and cluttered, and the workshop too cold these days).

I had a few frustrating days before, as the camera was jammed from the self-timer, it did not trigger from the button, and I could see no issue.

Getting the mirror box out is needed to access the self-timer, so I had to make my way through this complex camera. I will not detail as I followed the "servicing the mirror box" tutorial, with some tweaks like having to cut a cable as the circuit does not seem to be identical to the one in the tutorial (this is something to take care afterwards, but this will be a different story).

Getting the following needle out was a challenge as it seemed to be firmly glued, putting it back will be interesting (I HAVE to find proper binoculars, my reading glasses are not magnifying enough for such small parts).

Even if the goal was to get through the self-timer issue, I first did the mirror box service procedure, which solved a lot of issues like the aperture follower that was firmly stuck due to gummed up grease, the DOF lever which did not come back for the same reason...

A good cleanup with IPA, followed by regreasing with a proper grease made wonders.

There are a few tricky things like the reed contacts that come apart in 5 pieces when unscrewed, or some teeny tiny springs I can barely see and had to remove (and reinsert of course)

Not sure the "after" images show the difference, but the mechanism feels like new, with the satisfying "click" when coming back.

I attempted a removal of the self-timer/DOF/mirror lockup levers, but was not sure it was useful and dreaded loosing some small parts, so I performed a clean-up then light oiling.

 

[Laurent]

When the servicing was done, I spent some time figuring out how to remove this f*****g self-timer mechanism, and lost some time fetching the Internet for some tutorials on this subject. After a more thorough examination, I found two JIS-00 screws at the bottom of the mechanism, and was sure trying removing them would not dismantle the delicate thing.

It came surprisingly easily, and with no interference with the rest of the camera.

The mechanism by itself is very neat, and seems fine.

I tried dropping it in IPA for a while, then played with it a bit and this seems better. I had fears that an axle was broken and this could be the cause of the jam, but my personal mechanical expert (aka my son) decided this is by design that a part of the mechanism can move out of its normal position so that there is no need to repair this. I'll trust him on this.

The IPA helped getting the timer getting back to _some_ movement, but it does not go to the end, so I suspect I have to dip it longer and lubricate afterwards.

Anyway, I decided I wanted to know if the camera could do without it so that I had a plan B.

Putting the mirror box back on is... interesting, particularly as I did not take care of the different mechanical parts, so I had a half-jammed camera. The tutorial is very well made, but I had to find a way to put the "mirror up signal pin" in the right position, and to do without being able to wind the shutter halfway since it was wound and would not trigger as some levers were not there to allow a proper cycle.

To get the "mirror up signal pin" in the right place, I found the easiest is to push the mirror up gently so that the lever is in the right position when putting the mirror box back.

The current situation is that the camera fires again (hourra!) at all speeds, proving the selftimer is not needed if I can't get it back to proper operation.

Next issue is that I have to find why the winding mechanism will jam from time to time, and need to remove the winding lever to unjam... I suspect some gummed-up grease at the bottom may not help, so I guess the next endeavour will be to dismantle the bottom of the camera and its mess of a gazillion levers. This will be a task for a day when I'm home alone, I guess!

In the meantime, I finally ordered some tools (a spanner wrench is much needed, as a minimum) and some new leatherette to that the camera can look nice WHEN I get it back to work!

Another issue is that this is becoming addictive, and I'm already looking for the next project (and I know ADHD is not my ally here, so I try to resist...)

 

[Andreas Thaler]

Thanks for your report, very helpful!

You can see that the F-1 is manufactured to a high quality. Outstanding mechanics!

 

[Laurent]

Thanks for your report, very helpful!

You can see that the F-1 is manufactured to a high quality. Outstanding mechanics!

Indeed, I'm absolutely amazed at this device.

A side question: what kind of support do you use to work on cameras? At the moment I find it very precarious to just put the camera on a mat, especially when it has to reside on a small face. I have a special holder for PCB, but it is too specialized to be useful for holding a whole camera

 

[Andreas Thaler]

A side question: what kind of support do you use to work on cameras? At the moment I find it very precarious to just put the camera on a mat, especially when it has to reside on a small face. I have a special holder for PCB, but it is too specialized to be useful for holding a whole camera

I have several vices/board holders for fixation, which I can also combine:

9-205-ESD ESD ball joint vise

9-205-ESD ESD ball joint vise: 50 mm plastic jaws dissipative, steel ball Ø 40 mm

www.bernstein-werkzeuge.de

For working on electronics with ESD protection

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Get the DREMEL Multi-Vise. This simple-to-use rotary mini vise gives you the power to steady your project and the freedom to work with both of your hands.

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[Laurent]

Thanks!

I'm looking for one of these, and will also need a pair of loupes with integrated LED.

Today I did some "tidy up" stuff, checking for the intermittent jam of the winding lever, and working on the back opening. I HATE mechanisms that do not work smoothly.

As a memo for myself, the position of the winding lever's screws (would like to understand WHY THE HELL it gets 4 different screws... I won't ask my son as he would use profanities about such a design decision )

A nice observation: the jam is in the lever's plate, and is an interference between the shutter release and the winding lever. What chances are there that this is due to someone sitting on my chair right know trying to make the shutter release smoother ? Guess I'll have to unmount this again to find the issue

So, as I said, I like smooth mechanics, and the feeling of the back opening mechanism as well as the pin that unhinges the back di not please me.

The tiny screw locks the pin, and provides a way to retract it. The spring pushes the pin back in position. A very small flat screw driver, two minutes work, a bit of cleaning and a drop of oil make this much better.

Same, the door lock does not feel good, so I removed the cover (two screws) to clean and lubricate. There are two washers that prevent the screws to be tightened too far, and provide guidance for the mechanism. I applied some grease (tiny amount, which I wipe so that there remains only a "symbolic" film)

That's all for today I guess... Unless the intermittent jam does not let me at peace!

 

[Laurent]

Well, I could say it's embarrassing, or I could count this as a success... As suspected, the issue way behind the chair and the screwdriver... So I've fixed the intermittent jam and learned two valuable things:

1)There is a small plunger in the shutter release button, which is used when a cable release is fitted.

2) The strange piece of brass I found in the parts box was NOT a leftover from another project

3) (Yes I said 2, but we programmers tend to have an issue when counting stuff and are regularly to fix an offset by 1) I should take more photographs of the stuff, and take more notes about everything.

Anyway, it helps having two "identical" cameras (there are interesting differences like the location of the quiding screw for the release for example, I dunno if the position in indifferent or if it's a version change) as opening the "main" one showed me the obvious thing I was missing.

As a side note there's also the fact that F-one-kenstein may be a mix, as I read somewhere "Old" F1 old had a solid metal winding lever and it was not ratcheted. Mine has such a lever but is clearly ratcheted...

 

[Laurent]

Yesterday's status is a half success, I did not solve the self timer's issue but this is because the spring is broken... I extracted it yesterday evening, as I wanted to check if it was possible to make the timer run on external energy.

I don't know if I can fix it (my son thinks not, so I guess if I try I'll waste time , he's most of a time a very good advisor). I would either have to weld the two parts together, but welding heat and spring steel do not work well together, or I'd have to make a new eye at the broken end, but the missing length may mean there won't be enough energy to do a full cycle.

Current reflexion is around finding a way to prevent the timer lever to move in the winding direction, so that it does not move as it wants. I may 3D print a fake time, or build a metal part to block the lever...

I saw at least one self timer for sale on Ebay, not sure it's worth it. But if you happen to have a spare spring or a broken timer with a spring in one piece that would be great!

In the mean time, I have to analyze the videos my son did of the shutter operation. We shot at 300 frames/sec, and I hope this will give me an idea of the current curtains' timing.

In parallel, I think I'll remove the mirror box again, to prepare for proper reinstallation (replace the cable I cut, check lubrication of the different parts, etc...) when I'm ready to block the self timer's lever.

 

[Andreas Thaler]

Excellent thanks for keeping us updated

 

[Laurent]

Small achievement but big victory yesterday: I put the aperture striker back in place and found that the camera not only fires, but properly actuates the aperture when triggered. This confirms again the camera was dismantled previously, putting it back is tricky and I guess this is why it did not return properly.

One step closer to a functional camera!

The plan for the this weekend entails removing the mirror box again so that I can replace the selftimer by a lock for the lever, review lubrication as the aperture simulator does not get back to place properly (sticky grease?), and replace the wire I butchered to get my way through

Longer term plan is to find where the heck I should solder the wire back (I guess I'll have to investigate the whole wiring, there is at least one oversize wire that does not seem to belong to the original camera), and start looking at the videos of the shutter action.

I also should start putting a shutter tester parts together so that I can check the speeds.

And if I get bored, there are two top covers that need attention


This could be an interesting week-end (and may be I'll have a look at the T90s)

 

[Andreas Thaler]

What motivates you?

This all is a good amount of work.

 

[Laurent]

Waouh, that's a tough question!

Curiosity mainly, I've been wanting to lurk into cameras for years. I've always been fascinated by mechanisms, and get frustrated at the current "state of the art" where every issue is solved by more computing power and more motors. By contrast these cameras only use clever simple mechanisms which, put together, can make a device of almost any complexity needed.

Also because I don't like non functional cameras, so as soon as I used the top cover for "my" F1, I built the project of getting the donor back to work so that I have a backup. As a person suffering from perfectionism, I can't get away with a camera that "just works" if I know I could have done better... So that means getting a second F1 in a decent shape.

For this to work I need some tools like a shutter tester, and this brings me to a second "special interest" which is electronics and computer, what they call "physical computing". When I started working in computers, we developped solutions that drove a whole foundry (think 2k employees) with machines having 16Mb RAM (yes, mega, not giga) and we shared a 50Mb (again, mega, not giga) disk for storing our data/configuration/logs. Nowadays an Arduino is close to this computing power, and I like it more than programming on PCs with virtually no limitations.

Of course I also need hand tools, and I LOVE tools so it's a good reason to get more.

And in the current days, I need a derivative to keep my mental health good enough, and again fixing stuff is good for this and my karma.

I'm starting wondering what I'll do with all these cameras (I have a Canon TX on its way, which I bought partly as a joke since my favourite piece of software is called "TX" , and the guy put a Konica FS-1 + 300/5.6 lens to get rid of these) as the house is limited in size...

But if I was to summarize this I'd say "Fun is the main driver"