the bicycle tube 4x5 Paterson insert ...

well, i don 't see a subforum for non-serious stuff, and anyway this even if for fun, is about an actual "device"...

so I started 4x5 couple weeks ago. It was meant to be very occasional with the increasing back of a 6x9 Horseman, but it has become fun.

how to develop the 4x5 sheets? I have Kindermann steel tanks and newest Paterson tanks. My first pictures I just put one or two in the 1L 2x120 tank, emulsion inward. so it doesn't stick to the walls.

Solutions I have seen online for agitation and fast fillin/draining, ie. good for any kind of BW or color processing, at an affordable cost, are SP-445, BW King, QL-45.
There's SP-445 but takes only 4 sheets, so when i will use the Grafmatic, will not be able to develop all the 6 sheets at once.
Besides, now, after I bought camera, lenses, backs, packs of 4x5, I am now momentarily fed up with feeding norwegian tax system. There's basically nothing here in Norway, have to buy abroad and shipment+import+fee means twice the price in the end (sometime more).

So, I am now doing the 4 sheets bent with a rubber band inside the 1l Paterson. I see americans call this "taco method", which is weird because for me a taco is a small tortilla, ie. it is flat, similar to a crêpe/ thin pancake/ blini/ etc.

I have a box of thin rubber bands, need to double one so hold the 4x5 sheet:



but it is a bit too tight and with good agitation and washes, it comes progressively off in the end.

there are covid regulations and non-essential shops are online-buy and pick at the shop. Can't walk in, look around and see what could fit better in size, strength, shape...

so here is the perfect custom alternative.
Take some bicycle tube, cut and open lengthwise:




cut rounds/ovals with a matching hole:



et voilà !



with a bit of test I get the perfect size and fit. It stays there and doesn't roll, whatever shakes I do when washing.

Clever. You need to patent this before someone takes your idea and commercializes it.

regarding tacos... you are invited to dinner on Tuesday to learn more about them!

I think that you should use your energy and resources to invest in a Jobo 3010 Expert Drum. Then spend more time doing photography rather than posting about photography.

Sirius Glass said:

spend more time doing photography

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yep .. two thumbs up .

Sirius Glass said:

rather than posting about photography

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.BLAH ,,, creativity helps in the ability to see images that are within sight ... ya gotta start somewhere

Great idea!
Now regarding tacos, one of my favorite dishes: a tortilla is a flat, thin, round disc made of corn or flour. A taco is a tortilla folded in half with tasty fillings in the “U,” hence the “taco method.”
It is a hard choice between preparing delicious tacos and consuming them and going out to do photography as Sirius suggests we do more often. Depends on the time of day.

Sirius Glass said:

I think that you should use your energy and resources to invest in a Jobo 3010 Expert Drum. Then spend more time doing photography rather than posting about photography.

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I am just back home, read my mails, etc. I spend the afternoon/evening out, shot 2 rolls TXP 320, 2 rolls Lomography-400, four sheets 4x5 Fomapan-100 , two 4x5 Retropan-320, going to develop, dry and scan now. Yesterday similar. ...Now with longer days again I usually do couple rolls every evening, and as I have started with 4x5 the devil knows how much I am going to shot . I bought 2 packs of 50 sheets, one Fomapan-100, one Retropan-320, they won't last long, going to order some Adox and some HP5

it's totally excluded I buy a Jobo expert system, I rather invest the money in film and chemicals... May buy the chinese BW King tank and reel when it will show again for sale (currently not)

If they're available in Norway, you might consider a Yankee Agitank. Takes a lot of solution (1.63L for 4x5) but holds up to a dozen sheets, and it's quick to fill and drain -- and, at least in the US, it's quite cheap. Alternatively, for much less than a B&W King system, you can get a Mod 54 that will hold 4x5 (four or six sheets, I don't recall for certain) in a standard Paterson 3-reel tank, and process them in about a liter.

Yes, we should have called it the burrito method, but we're Americans, so you have to keep your expectations appropriately low.

[QUOTE="It is a hard choice between preparing delicious tacos and consuming them and going out to do photography as Sirius suggests we do more often. Depends on the time of day."[/QUOTE]

Since you live in L.A., the solution is simple. Grab a burrito or a few tacos at one of your 1,000,000+ taco trucks there to bring w/ you when you head out to shoot. I love them both, but at 69 years old, the carbs in them had me gaining weight. Went to the Keto diet, got the weight off, and now I can eat these delicious items again by discarding the corn and flour tortilla that they're in. Should have dumped the carbs 20 years ago.

I have recently purchased the B&W King 4x5 tank. It is expensive, but very nicely built and easy to use. It can do 10 sheets of 4x5 with 1050 ml of solution. Its not perfect, but its the best available that I know of. The down sides are, it leaks if inverted, the lid can be a challenge to remove. Just my 2 cents.

I use hair bands rather than rubber bands.

momus said:

Yes, we should have called it the burrito method, but we're Americans, so you have to keep your expectations appropriately low.

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Dios mio...seriously?

Sirius Glass said:

I think that you should use your energy and resources to invest in a Jobo 3010 Expert Drum. Then spend more time doing photography rather than posting about photography.

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Pot meet kettle...

Kino said:

Pot meet kettle...

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I didn't realize Hasselblad made a kettle....

MattKing said:

I didn't realize Hasselblad made a kettle....

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https://fineartamerica.com/featured/campfire-kettle-nick-hasselblad.html

MattKing said:

I didn't realize Hasselblad made a kettle....

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Neither did I.

Donald Qualls said:

If they're available in Norway, you might consider a Yankee Agitank.

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well nothing, almost, is available in Norway too little population so no real market for the film niche and for sure no nice prices. It's ok, we are used to it, but when in a period of many successive buys in a row, one can feel angry.

even when it is sold by a local importer in the end it is more expensive than buying from abroad....

Ebay is good for us here because it does bill at checkout norwegian VAT and reverts it to norwegian treasury through the norwegian dedicated portal called VOEC (Vat on E-Commerce). Ebay and Amazon are huge, they do it no problem. Otherwise add 23 to 35 USD processing fee, when buying from small shops who don't want to deal with norwegian bureaucracy.

Just for the fun: I search on ebay the cheapest, shipment included, MOD54, and it is sold now by a shop in ... USA.
This one, see 47USD and 28USD shipment to Norway



If I go to checkout, Ebay computes the VAT, ie. +25%, and it becomes 93USD:




a shop in Norway does sell the MOD54, 795NOK , so ~ 93 USD...





but the shop is ~5 hrs drive from my place, can˝t collect, have to get it shipped over with postal service. It becomes 945 NOK ~ 111USD




if I buy from USA on Ebay, shipment and tax included ~ 93 USD
if I buy from here Norway, shipment included: ~ 111 USD

see?

so either things are not available, and if some are, it's cheaper to buy from abroad anyway...
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the Yanki Tank...

Takes a lot of solution (1.63L for 4x5) but holds up to a dozen sheets, and it's quick to fill and drain -- and, at least in the US, it's quite cheap. Alternatively, for much less than a B&W King system, you can get a Mod 54 that will hold 4x5 (four or six sheets, I don't recall for certain) in a standard Paterson 3-reel tank, and process them in about a liter.

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i really considered it, but as I understand it can't be inverted. I could still buy one and tinker a bit with o-rings, seals and some cork system, but I really lack time these days.

the Mod54 I decided not to buy because unsure how well it can withstand strong agitation and washes... descriptions recommend "gentle agitation".

Cholentpot said:

I use hair bands rather than rubber bands.

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I will try this too. Rubber band or custom bike tube rings, I often get one or two off because agitations and washes. I even got some scratches, by the corner of a sheet expansing loose hitting another...

I have now bought an insert holder for the Paterson tank, but the time it will take to arrive, I will keep playing with hair or rubber or whatever bands...

Digger Odell said:

I have recently purchased the B&W King 4x5 tank. It is expensive, but very nicely built and easy to use. It can do 10 sheets of 4x5 with 1050 ml of solution. Its not perfect, but its the best available that I know of. The down sides are, it leaks if inverted, the lid can be a challenge to remove. Just my 2 cents.

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I guess some sealing may be added to cure leaks, and the lid tweaked... I was hesitating then it went off from Ebay, maybe seller needs to get a new batch manufactured.

the alternative I found is a chinese implementation of the Jobo Multitank5, but with a different kind of 4x5 holders.

But, since I have anyway a Paterson tank, I finally bought yesterday this, from some guys in France: Takes 6 sheets.



the shop: https://realfilmreel.bigcartel.com/ and they are on ebay too (ie. convenient for automated zero fees vat processing)

But it ships from France, so I guess I have two weeks to play with bike tubes or whatever I can figure out...

I just thought you are going to put the sheet film into the tube for the development and thinking how you come up the sealing them, before I open the thread. Well...

Here's another option for the Patterson Tank:

https://www.bounetphoto.com/bounet-shop/bs-4x5-developing-reel

Honestly, it seems to me you might be ahead to buy a 3D printer. They start at around $200+ USD; shipping won't be trivial, but you only have to pay that and VAT once for the printer and then when you buy filament or resin. A lot of this stuff is 3D printed already (some of the sheet carriers that go in Paterson tanks, for instance). And once you have one, you can print stuff to sell to others in Norway, undercut the foreign suppliers, and pay for your habit, er hobby...

Donald Qualls said:

Honestly, it seems to me you might be ahead to buy a 3D printer. They start at around $200+ USD; shipping won't be trivial, but you only have to pay that and VAT once for the printer and then when you buy filament or resin. A lot of this stuff is 3D printed already (some of the sheet carriers that go in Paterson tanks, for instance). And once you have one, you can print stuff to sell to others in Norway, undercut the foreign suppliers, and pay for your habit, er hobby...

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I'll let you negotiate with my wife for the extra space near the computer .

Many/most of them don't have to be close to the computer -- they get their .stl files from a thumb drive or SD card. The rest are network devices, so either Ethernet wire or wifi...

Donald Qualls said:

Many/most of them don't have to be close to the computer -- they get their .stl files from a thumb drive or SD card. The rest are network devices, so either Ethernet wire or wifi...

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They still require space, but point taken.
Carving out the space for the darkroom and film and camera stuff has left me with a negotiating disadvantage!