This was a problem that I ran into as well. The best UV blocking color for me (on my Epson 9880) was, obviously, rich black. That's because it combines all of the inks and has the highest density of ink. However, as you go from darker to lighter shades, the ratios of ink aren't anywhere near smooth or consistent. So it was virtually useless for alt. process negatives. I also tried straight Cyan and Magenta. I had the same issues, though not nearly as bad. This is due to having two of each of those inks, and the mix ratio between them being uncontrollable on my setup. Greens, oranges, violets, all had similar issues. Violet was actually the second best UV blocker behind rich black. Yellow didn't give me very good results either, as it didn't block UV all that well and really limited my shadow density. I even tried monotone prints in CMYK to force the printer to keep the ink ratios consistent. But that didn't work out for me. Photoshop isn't good with colors like that (or at least I couldn't figure out how to keep it from altering the ratios on it's own). In the end, I settled with standard black. I just convert all of my images to grayscale and use black ink only option in the printer's dialog box. I have no idea if that causes the printer to only use one cartridge or all three black ink cartridges, but I do know that I can get a smooth and consistent gradient across the board, post curves. If it does use three different black cartridges, they are at least similar enough to each other in UV blocking characteristics that after the curve is applied, it doesn't produce much of an issue for me.Another point, since your printer has 2 cyan cartridges in that printer you can not control which cyan cartridge is used when making green color. Both inks C and LC, will have different UV blocking characteristics.
If you look at the green color column and compare it to the pure yellow, you will notice in both exposures the yellow column has smoother increase in densities.
25 min exposure for green color has anomalies.
Usually with epson printers Y ink is the best UV blocking color, after black inks.
Why Y cartridge, because it is my experience with Epson printers. I have used printers with Claria inks and Epson 3880 and 9800. Yellow ink is the best uv blocking color, black inks are opaque in adequate densities.Yes, your point is valid but why is Y the best UV blocking color after the black inks? The printer uses 3 black inks for a B/W print and they may have different UV blocking characteristics, too.
That brings me to the theory that perhaps it is not the pigment color per se that is responsible ultimately to the blocking power, rather the physical area it covers.
:Niranjan.
In my system I use an app that allows you to control the volume and distribution curve of each of the 12 colors available... I first find the best exposure time using a step tablet for the process. I Then print a color array which demonstrates the candidates for best UV blocking... I then determine that array color’s numbers. Then I use that number in the app to set the color ink and volume. In the case of Kallitype or Pt/Pd my choice involved a combination of about 90% yellow and 10% magenta and I turned off the other 10 colors...the printer output distribution for both colors was set to be linear (this is the profile unlinearized)... I then print the app’s step tablet with this profile at the predetermined best UV exposure time and process and dry... I then read the printed step densities back into the app’s linearization function which produces a linearized “profile “ for the paper/process... at this point I import the negative image that I want to make a digital negative of into the app, apply the profile and print... in practice this is a very straight forward task and the tonal quality is very smooth...Any new process I only have to use the unlinearized profile and make a print of the step tablet with that process,read and linearize. I believe this has been successful because there is no printer determined algorithms or amping up or down with pigment distributions and volumes... just operator controlled linear distribution of ink. Also the profile is performing tonal mapping which is not exactly the same as apply a somewhat aggressive curve on the image file itself... I’m use a canon iPF printer with LUCIA inks ...the big down side is that the app only works with Canon iPF printers and Apple computers ...
From what little I know about QTR , this is much simpler and more direct control of the full printer function ... I do Pt/Pd, Kallitype, Cyanotype and Gum Bichromate...Very intersting....looks like you have created a QTR type system for Canon. Is that right? Do Lucia inks provide good UV opacity? What process are you doing?
:Niranjan.
From what little I know about QTR , this is much simpler and more direct control of the full printer function ... I do Pt/Pd, Kallitype, Cyanotype and Gum Bichromate...
I can’t directly compare Canon’s LUCIA with Epson inks but it’s becoming a bit more clear that opacity as a factor in UV blocking is a more complex issue and could actually be a two edged sword... if an ink is very dense and opaque then issues show up which requires more enhanced print management techniques and file manipulating... A degree of translucency of the ink/pigment offers opportunity for improved subtleties and smooth tonal quality ... I do know that my system is capable (if not used thoughtfully) of laying down too much ink and thereby overwhelm the capacity of pictorico / ink press OHP and forming puddles...I have been playing with QTR last few weeks....it definitely could use some simplicity. Not sure it is my cup of tea. Unfortunately my printer Epson P400 does not cut it for UV opacity the normal way so I thought I get better results with QTR as it allows to pile on ink density (which has it's own problems.)
I was under the impression that only Epson allows the direct control of ink nozzles. If you are able to do that with Canon, I bet folks will be very much interested in it. Particularly someone like Cone/InkjetMall who would love to sell their custom monochrome inks to bigger market than just Epson people.
The reason I asked about the opacity of Lucia inks is that Canon has a great sale going on right now for Pro-100 that can be had for some $120 after rebates. I thought I might consider it if I had an understanding of how opaque the Lucia inks are and whether it is possible to do colorized negative without the use of driver control as you seem to be doing. I got burnt with P400 which I bought assuming it was going to be adequate (should have done more research.) I am also doing a process that is the most demanding of the negative Dmax, i.e. Centennial POP. P400 almost works for my version of hand-coated salt prints, but it is grossly inadequate for Centennial POP. I was spoiled by my (now dead and gone) HP B9180 which was excellent for this process.
:Niranjan.
I can’t directly compare Canon’s LUCIA with Epson inks but it’s becoming a bit more clear that opacity as a factor in UV blocking is a more complex issue and could actually be a two edged sword... if an ink is very dense and opaque then issues show up which requires more enhanced print management techniques and file manipulating... A degree of translucency of the ink/pigment offers opportunity for improved subtleties and smooth tonal quality ... I do know that my system is capable (if not used thoughtfully) of laying down too much ink and thereby overwhelm the capacity of pictorico / ink press OHP and forming puddles...
Hi Luis.
Yes, my conclusion is the same : the best blocking color and not the most blocking color should be chosen. However, a lot of people recommend the most blocking color as being the best choice. See, for example, here:http://www.thesis.bilkent.edu.tr/0006299.pdf
Hi Dan,Hi Serdar.
I didn't know it was yours. I quoted it because it was the most handy for me - I keep a link to it in my browser as I could find many useful things there.
Well, Interesting to see my thesis quoted. I would have written it differently today. Since I have noticed the problem with that particular green color later on.
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...or-the-digital-negatives.156527/#post-2031200
QTR ink calibration chart is a better method to determine best possible UV blocking color combinations.
Well, Interesting to see my thesis quoted. I would have written it differently today. Since I have noticed the problem with that particular green color later on.
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...or-the-digital-negatives.156527/#post-2031200
QTR ink calibration chart is a better method to determine best possible UV blocking color combinations.
Hi Luis.
Yes, my conclusion is the same : the best blocking color and not the most blocking color should be chosen. However, a lot of people recommend the most blocking color as being the best choice. See, for example, here:http://www.thesis.bilkent.edu.tr/0006299.pdf
It states:
"The resulting print shows which colors block most UV light apart from the black ink. In the print (see Figure 24) the green color shows the most resistance to UV light. We can deduce that the green color (combined from different inks) and the black ink from this specific printer can be used to create the most UV opaque negative possible."
It was not my intention to discuss Mr Mrhar system as I neither use it nor am I familiar with it. I have only used his well designed HSB color grid for printing the sample prints.
Finding the best exposure time first is a must, of course. But choosing the best exposure time is another interesting discussion. There is not a single exposure time that prints the darker possible black while keeping the white unchanged. Which of them works better? The general accepted recommendation is to use the shortest ET which fulfills the condition. But why not to choose the ET that fulfills the condition and prints the middle grey most close to the correct middle grey, for example?
My guess is that there is no significant difference and the correction curve will compensate for the differences, if any. A noticeable difference may appear from the capability of the inkjet printer to print better the differences in the darker tones or in the lighter tones. If this is the case then the best ET should be chosen in such a way to enable the use of darker or lighter Digital Negatives. I have never tested that but working lately with Gum prints, which are very demanding, raises the question.
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