The Arnolfini Portrait' by Jan van Eyck

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cliveh

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I have always thought that something of a photographic nature is going on with this painting and you may know David Hockney has pointed out his thoughts about the use of mirrors and a camera obscura. However, I think that even something of a chemical nature may have been used to render a basic image to paint over. Do others have any thoughts on how this painting could have such a photographic perspective?

https://about.jstor.org/blog/the-many-questions-surrounding-jan-van-eycks-arnolfini-portrait/



Mods please move if in wrong forum
 

jvo

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I don't think it would be a stretch if it was discovered that the use of camera obscura to be more prevalent than previously thought - we await time travel... Van Eyck and many other artists have fascinated me with their expertise and skill. Use of camera obscura would bring their art closer to human scale - though still well outside my range without a lot more practice and imagination. Wouldn't that also add the photographic perspective?

I'm not clear what you're suggesting regarding something of a chemical nature? Some of the techniques he used - oil paint... multiple translucent glazes... tools to enhance details... and use of light to enhance depth, etc. The oils and glazes are certainly of a chemical nature,... am I missing something more?
 
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cliveh

cliveh

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I don't think it would be a stretch if it was discovered that the use of camera obscura to be more prevalent than previously thought - we await time travel... Van Eyck and many other artists have fascinated me with their expertise and skill. Use of camera obscura would bring their art closer to human scale - though still well outside my range without a lot more practice and imagination. Wouldn't that also add the photographic perspective?

I'm not clear what you're suggesting regarding something of a chemical nature? Some of the techniques he used - oil paint... multiple translucent glazes... tools to enhance details... and use of light to enhance depth, etc. The oils and glazes are certainly of a chemical nature,... am I missing something more?

What if some painters were using something of the following nature to sketch over before painting. The following notes are for an article I never published due to experiments that were not successful (pictures not copied into post) : -

The elusive leucotype​

Within the history of photography there were many different chemical formulations which were capable of reacting to light. Some of these could be stabilised or fixed after exposure and some could not. There are probably others that were never brought into practical use after the Calotype and Daguerreotype became established processes.

I would like to draw attention to a little-known process that Fox Talbot discovered in 1840 in which I believe was a response to a desire to develop a direct positive process to presumably compete with Daguerre. He was not alone in experimenting with a direct positive process, as others such as Robert Hunt, Hippolyte Bayard, Dr Andrew Fyfe and Jean Louis Lassaigne in France were among others, experimenters of that era.

Just prior to developing the Calotype (the first practical negative/positive process), Talbot experimented with a chemical means to create a positive image, presumably because he had not fully realised the full potential his repeatable printing process had for multiple copies of prints. Something that the Daguerreotype could not do, being a one-shot process. He succeeded in producing direct positives with a process utilising Silver Nitrate and Potassium Iodide and called these images Leucotypes. The name is derived from the Greek word Leuco, meaning white.

The process Fox Talbot developed, was basically to darken his photogenic paper in sunshine and then apply potassium Iodide, after which he could produce a positive photogram effect with objects placed on the paper in sunshine. He called it a Leucotype , but didn’t patent it with that name, as it appears in patent number 8842 on the 8th February, 1841 along with 5 other process applications.

The reason I think it is worth exploring the Leucotype in greater detail is because when we look at it in its historical, chronological context, it was only 2 days later Talbot was to discover how the use of Gallic acid had the potential to develop a latent image. A discovery so important in the History of photography that it makes the discovery of the Leucotype pale into insignificance in the race to produce a practical photographic process. If I could draw an analogy, it could be a bit like discovering a propeller to power a plane and then discover the jet engine. So, let’s step back in history and look at Leucotype chemistry in greater depth.

Letter from hunt – investigate – very important

My own experiments in this process were very limited, but thought it worth mentioning, as others may wish to explore this process in greater depth.

To make a Leucotype is a fairly simple process, which involves coating paper with Silver Nitrate, fogging it in sunlight and then recoating it with Potassium Iodide prior to exposing it in contact with some image material, as in a photogram situation. The initial low sensitivity of these Leucotypes made them difficult to use in a camera. However, he did find through experimentation that changing the strength of the potassium Iodide in relation to the strength of the silver nitrate did increase the sensitivity. This was recorded in his notes on the 18th September, 1840. He also found that it could be fixed or stabilised, just by simply washing it in hot water. But what makes the lectotype even more interesting is that ******** >I’

Reference dates in Talbots notebook Q to Leucotype –

Sept 17/18 1840

27 Feb/5mar 1841

20 Apr and 5 may 1841

may/Sept !841

Sept 4 1842

Oct 7 1842 – March 1843

March/April 1843

Q37 – common photogenic paper blackened in sun, place object on its re-expose in sun, the exposed part will turn green, then wash with potassium iodide and put in light. The black part is whitened and the green blackened.

Q75 – curious anomaly. Some specimens of leucotype paper are not partially whitened by a very short exposure, but darkened. A longer exposure however lightens them.

Curiouser and curiouser said Alice.


Test exposures under glass

Q75 – Paper dipped in nitrate of silver very strong and then in iodide potassium of moderate strength turns brown in light, or when warmed. This browned paper washed with prussiate potassium is whitened. This whitened paper is very sensitive to light.

Positive prints may be made on this dark paper, viz by washing it with prussiate potash after the picture has been received, which whitens the part acted on by light much more than the light itself has done.
 

jvo

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as you say the, leucotype and other processes lost in the "first to market race" and fell into obscurity. They may have been used or experimented with by various artists at the time. Van Eyck was certainly not among the experimenters for those processes as his work was done in the 1400's.

Are you postulating that other chemical experimental processes were in the "works" at that time?
 
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cliveh

cliveh

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as you say the, leucotype and other processes lost in the "first to market race" and fell into obscurity. They may have been used or experimented with by various artists at the time. Van Eyck was certainly not among the experimenters for those processes as his work was done in the 1400's.

Are you postulating that other chemical experimental processes were in the "works" at that time?

Yes, but I'm not suggesting Van Eyck did, but perhaps picked up on others who were and then used by Van Eyck.
 

koraks

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as you say the, leucotype and other processes lost in the "first to market race" and fell into obscurity. They may have been used or experimented with by various artists at the time.

I'm not quite sure I agree with this 'fell into obscurity' qualification. The works of (among others) Herschel were revisited frequently in especially the first half of the 20th century as photographic R&D rose to the massive proportions we know from the heydays of Kodak et al. If you look at publications like Mees' 1942 review, you'll see that for instance Herschel's findings are often referred to, accompanied by a more contemporary follow-up with more in-depth/expanded theory based on further empirical research.

Processes like the leucotype as such may have never made it (yet?) to a place in amateur printing, but the empirical work was incorporated sure enough into the body of R&D and the products that followed from it. This is particularly true for Herschel's work.

Btw, I find the implied connection between the Van Eyck painting and Herschel's work a stretch of the imagination that my mental gymnastics can in no way keep up with.
 

reddesert

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Many of the speculations about context and the symbolism of the objects in the Arnolfini portrait are discussed in eg the wikipedia article on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnolfini_Portrait It wouldn't surprise me if the author of the blog entry had read / used that wikipedia article.

Speculation about a chemical process used to make the base image is a little odd because we already have a lot of information about the underneath of such a well known painting. Old Master paintings frequently are based on an underdrawing that is in some sense a full-scale study or draft for the painting, and this underdrawing and subsequent alterations can be studied with advanced imaging - typically infrared reflectometry since the media of the underdrawing reflect IR differently than the layers of paint over them. For a painting as well studied as the Arnolfini portrait, IR images showing the underdrawing and extensive discussion of what they reveal are easily accessible to us, for example https://blog.artedv.com/the-arnolfini-portrait-jan-van-eyck/
https://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/upload/pdf/billinge_campbell1995.pdf
 

Sirius Glass

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The reflections in the convex mirror in the Arnolfini Portrait by Jan van Eych and other paintings have always intrigued me with the detail and accuracy with which the reflection has been captured.

 
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