The 5° Spot & How It's Used?

[ChristopherCoy]

I've never owned a spot meter. In fact the only meter I've ever owned or used has been a Sekonic L308B, and then I only used it for studio work.

My question is mainly about the spot meter, like that of the L408 and how it's used. I understand that a 5° spot is rather large, especially when using long lenses, but with shorter lenses like a 24/50/105mm, when or where would this type of meter be handy? And why would one choose a spot meter, over the TTL meter of the camera?

 

[Dan Fromm]

What is this TTL meter of which you speak?

 

[ChristopherCoy]

What is this TTL meter of which you speak?

Yeah, I figured that was going to be the general response. However, if you've got a tool, why not use a tool? Are TTL meters on spot or center weighted mode THAT inaccurate as compared to a spot meter?

 

[MattKing]

A 5 degree spot meter should probably be considered a sort of spot meter.
The advantage of it is that it will give you a direct, visual reference as to what it is actually taking a meter reading from. That is more precise than centre weighted or matrix metering systems, or hand meters that read something like a 30 degree view. On the other hand, once you get used to a 30 degree view meter, you can get great results from it.
As that 408 meter adds other functionality - incident and flash readings in particular - it definitely will do things that an in-camera TTl meter can't. Of course a TTl meter is really great for other things, like close-up/macro work.
I have an accessory for a couple of Gossen meters that allows me to choose a narrower angle of view. I rarely take it out of its very nice, custom fitted case.

 

[MattKing]

Yeah, I figured that was going to be the general response. However, if you've got a tool, why not use a tool? Are TTL meters on spot or center weighted mode THAT inaccurate as compared to a spot meter?

I'm guessing that Dan should probably have used an irony emoticon
I'm trying to recall if he has ever referred to owning a camera that even has the potential of a built in meter - he probably has, but none comes to mind.
Maybe a Sinar ground glass metering probe?
It isn't that TTl meters are inaccurate. It is that the nature of the information they supply may or may not be ideally suited to one's needs.
I'm a big fan of incident meters, but I have and use all sorts of others, including TTl spot meters.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

I'm guessing that Dan should probably have used an irony emoticon
I'm trying to recall if he has ever referred to owning a camera that even has the potential of a built in meter - he probably has, but none comes to mind.

I'm betting I could learn a LOT of things from Dan with a day of following him around!

 

[BrianShaw]

I know that you know this, but do an experiment... meter with your TTL SLR and again with the 5-degree spot. Often the difference is negligible; sometimes it matters.

[Insert Frommian irony emoticon here]

I have a 7/21 degree attachment for LunaPro that I use for almost nothing. I have a 1-degree spotmeter that I use rarely. For most of my photography I get similar and completely acceptable metering from a general coverage reading or incident reading. Knowing when those won’t be acceptable is a skill learned from both experimentation and past failure.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I had a 5° spot meter and replaced it with a 1° Pentax Digital Spot Meter. I found that 5° was too big to measure the darkest low light detail or the brightest high light detail that I wanted to print.

 

[Dan Fromm]

I'm guessing that Dan should probably have used an irony emoticon
I'm trying to recall if he has ever referred to owning a camera that even has the potential of a built in meter - he probably has, but none comes to mind.
Maybe a Sinar ground glass metering probe?
It isn't that TTl meters are inaccurate. It is that the nature of the information they supply may or may not be ideally suited to one's needs.
I'm a big fan of incident meters, but I have and use all sorts of others, including TTl spot meters.

Nikons with TTL meters I have owned and used: Nikkormat FTN, EM, FM2n, FG, N8008s, Nikkormat ELW and I forget what else. They've never steered me wrong. That's why I teased the OP.

Most of my S8 cinecameras have had TTL meters. One, a Canon 814LS (= 814 AZ with B&H double system sound), has sometimes seemed to have a strongly edge-weighted meter. It has occasionally steered me wrong. A strongly backlit billboard that nearly filled the frame was badly underexposed. And a Beaulieu 4008ZM's metering system once went visibly berserk. System failure.

I have a 2x3 Horseman Exposure meter that I use for 2x3 and 6x12. Averaging TTL, usually gives good advice.

I agree with you that TTL meters, like all meters, have to be used thoughtfully. When shooting an ultrawide, even with a center filter, one has to be very thoughtful. I doubt a spotmeter would be helpful there.

When I'm not using the Horseman, a fairly recent acquisition, I've used Gossen Lunapro (= Lunasix III) with the narrow angle attachment, Weston Master V with Invercone and Sekonic L-328. With them I usually meter incident, they rarely steer me wrong. But I don't do Zone system.

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

I have a 5 degree spot attachment for my Minolta Flashmeter III, and I use it for landscape work and other kinds of available light outdoor photography. If I had a 1 degree spotmeter, I’d probably use that instead, but I haven’t gotten around to acquiring one. That said, I usually seem to find some spot or two or three of uniform reflectance to measure from.

 

[eli griggs]

1% in a dedicated spot meter is much more useful than a 5% 'spot' or larger meter, when trying to measure and average out a reading in all but the most simple job such as skin tone and a background sweep.

If however, you are doing landscape or general photography work which involves 'seeing' the complexities of shadows and lights, the 1% meter is a must have, IMO, though some photographers do pretty fine work from experience with Sunny 16.

You can also take incidental readings with both a 1% spot, larger 'spot' or camera meter by playing a styrofoam cups over the tool optic and metering from the the subject toward the camera, getting some duel use out of either tool, meter or camera.

There are cameras that use 1% metering, and other cameras that allow you to change view screens to get that same 1%, such as the Canon F1N AE but in general I'm of the opinion that even an old like my Pentax, with it's little 1% spot meter, with it's little waving pointer is better at getting the job done correctly and is as close to mandatory kit as colour film.

IMO.

 

[wiltw]

If you point a spotmeter at a mid-tonal area, it will tell you the exposure that exposes things at their inherent brightness.

An averaging meter will NOT (unless that area FILLS THE angle of view of the meter...it can be led astray by bright areas of the scene or dark areas of the screen (which is why most cameras have an Exposure Compensation control -- and the user has to GUESS about how much/little compensation is needed.

A spotmete can tell you the range of brrightness contained within a scene, so you know whether or not the scene fits within the dynamic range of the film, or of the medium upon which a photo will be reproduced...a photo contains less dynamic range when printed with an offset press.

All of the above can be accomplished with EITHER a one-degree or a five-degree spotmeter...the one degree meter simply lets you stay farther from the target! I own both types...I find the 5 degree generally very useful in a studio shot, while I find the 1 degre more useful outdoors.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I've never owned a spot meter. In fact the only meter I've ever owned or used has been a Sekonic L308B, and then I only used it for studio work.

My question is mainly about the spot meter, like that of the L408 and how it's used. I understand that a 5° spot is rather large, especially when using long lenses, but with shorter lenses like a 24/50/105mm, when or where would this type of meter be handy? And why would one choose a spot meter, over the TTL meter of the camera?

Sadly for Zone System work only a 1 degree spotmeter makes any sense. 5 degrees are just not fine enough.I dabbled with a 5-degree attachment for my Gossen for a while but it was more trouble than what it was worth. There is however no difference in handling a 5 or 1-degree spotmeter, so, it can be used for practice.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

Sadly for Zone System work only a 1 degree spotmeter makes any sense. 5 degrees are just not fine enough.I dabbled with a 5-degree attachment for my Gossen for a while but it was more trouble than what it was worth. There is however no difference in handling a 5 or 1-degree spotmeter, so, it can be used for practice.

I know nothing about the zone system.

the only time I can envision myself using the spot meter is when I’m shooting with the Yashica 635, maybe even the Minister D and that would be just for general exposure.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Well, for general exposure an averaging meter is better than good enough. For me. metering incident, when possible, gives more consistent results than metering reflected. The important thing to do, though, is to look and think. If what's important in the scene is much darker/lighter than much of the rest, adjust exposure accordingly. This is also necessary with TTL metering. Although, to be fair to modern SLRs with gazillions of metering points, I have no experience with any and have read that they make fewer mistakes than old-technology TTL metering SLRs such as I have.

I don't often recommend what I use, but if you can find a used Sekonic L-328 in good order with the attachments it will do what you need. Small, light and mine was quite inexpensive ($20 at a camera show). Gossen made an equivalent meter.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I have a 10 degree "spot" with a Minolta Autometer IIIF. I would pick out a "spot" that had various degrees of light; some dark, some light, some in-between. That became my basic exposure. Sometimes I would use the incident reading or at least check against it. If I'm shooting landscapes on a tripod with my medium format camera, I would bracket +1 and -1 for insurance. This was a good procedure for me especially early and late in the day when the lighting conditions are problematic. I never actually checked to see how many times I got the exposure "right" on the first reading or needed the bracketed shot. I think it's a mixed bag.

Since getting a 4x5 large format camera, I no longer bracket. But I'm trying to use a P&S digital camera as a light meter. I use the screen display and histogram to determine the exposure. I just started this procedure. So I can't assess how successful this procedure will turn out to be.

 

[Ariston]

Get a 1° spot meter and carefully meter the various parts of a scene - dark, light, mid-tones. Then select the exposure settings you think are best for the overall scene based on your experience with similar scenes from the past. Then pull out your cell phone and be amazed as your metering app does the same thing in a fraction of a second.

It works in all but the most difficult of scenes, or unless you are trying to do an unconventional exposure.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Get a 1° spot meter and carefully meter the various parts of a scene - dark, light, mid-tones. Then select the exposure settings you think are best for the overall scene based on your experience with similar scenes from the past. Then pull out your cell phone and be amazed as your metering app does the same thing in a fraction of a second.

It works in all but the most difficult of scenes, or unless you are trying to do an unconventional exposure.

Which metering app do you use?

 

[Dan Fromm]

Which metering app do you use?

PMFJI. Mental arithmetic, most likely. Some of us are old enough to have learned to calculate in our heads.

 

[Chan Tran]

A built in spot mode on modern SLR is about as good as the 5 deg. spot meter. The spot angle is dependent on the lens used. Resolution for the built in meter is 1/3 stop but that's good enough.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Well, for general exposure an averaging meter is better than good enough. For me. metering incident, when possible, gives more consistent results than metering reflected. The important thing to do, though, is to look and think. If what's important in the scene is much darker/lighter than much of the rest, adjust exposure accordingly. This is also necessary with TTL metering. Although, to be fair to modern SLRs with gazillions of metering points, I have no experience with any and have read that they make fewer mistakes than old-technology TTL metering SLRs such as I have.

I don't often recommend what I use, but if you can find a used Sekonic L-328 in good order with the attachments it will do what you need. Small, light and mine was quite inexpensive ($20 at a camera show). Gossen made an equivalent meter.

+1

 

[Ariston]

Which metering app do you use?

I’ll have to look. It is actually my “viewfinder” app that I use for composing before dragging out and setting up my 4x5 - it also shows the metering at the same time. I have a theory that all metering apps just report what the phone’s built-in camera meter is telling them. Smartphone meters are very advanced. My iPhone almost never takes a poorly exposed picture.

EDIT: Alan, I think it is called “Viewfinder Preview”. I actually still carry around a spot meter because I am terribly disorganized and have not labeled my ND filters as I should.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I’ll have to look. It is actually my “viewfinder” app that I use for composing before dragging out and setting up my 4x5 - it also shows the metering at the same time. I have a theory that all metering apps just report what the phone’s built-in camera meter is telling them. Smartphone meters are very advanced. My iPhone almost never takes a poorly exposed picture.

EDIT: Alan, I think it is called “Viewfinder Preview”. I actually still carry around a spot meter because I am terribly disorganized and have not labeled my ND filters as I should.

Using the P&S camera set to show BW is also what I do to scout the shot before setting up the tripod for the 4x5. I'm using a E-PL1 micro4/3 Olympus set on F/22 Aperture priority as a start point. The zoom lens let's me know which 4x5 lens I need to use once I settle on the shot I want to take.

The camera has matrix, center weighted and spot metering. If you zoom in all the way, that decrease the size of the spot angle to something pretty small although I don't know what the exact degrees you can get at the smallest. I don't use the zone system so I usually use center weighted. I check the LCD display for "proper" exposure and will use the histogram to make sure I'm not clipping. I then add or change stops in my head depending on filters, required DOF, etc. Of course with a regular light meter, you can more easily check the meter for alternate exposure settings. It's harder to do that with a camera. But being able to preview the picture in BW and frame the shot before mounting a lens is pretty neat. I just loaded my 4x5 film holder with color slide film, so I'll switch the P&S "camera/light meter" to color.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

One other thing is I can take a digital picture and record a short video of the scene dictating the settings I used. Then I can transcribe that information to paper when I get home.

 

[Ariston]

One other thing is I can take a digital picture and record a short video of the scene dictating the settings I used. Then I can transcribe that information to paper when I get home.

Ahhhh - that's a cool idea I hadn't thought of. I downloaded an app to take field notes, but it was much more tedious than just using a notebook. You had to tap from field to field and use drop down boxes and such... too slow.

I've had my eye on one of those Olympus cameras for work.