TF-5 fixer turns purple - pink after Tri-X/Xtol

gfeucht · May 13, 2022

I am trying a switch to TF-5 fixer for film and noticed something a bit disconcerting: when I pour it out of the tank after fixing, it’s very purple/pink. About triple the amount of that same color after a normal first wash or hypo clearing. I’ve normally used Kodak rapid fixer and have never seen this before.

Is this normal for TF-5?

mshchem · May 13, 2022

Are you using indicator stop bath? Bromcresol purple is slightly yellow in acidic and brilliant purple in basic solutions.

gfeucht · May 13, 2022

mshchem said:
Are you using indicator stop bath? Bromcresol purple is slightly yellow in acidic and brilliant purple in basic solutions.

Yes I have been using Kodak indicator stop bath.

mshchem · May 13, 2022

I'm not an expert on TF-5 fixer, I've never tried it. I believe it is supposed to be neutral. Bromcresol purple (quick check of the internet) is purple at pH 6.8. Not sure if it's the indicator or the dyes that are used in film. Tmax films will have purple traces even after fixing.
I use Kodak Hypo Clearing Agent, for 2 minutes after fixing for Tmax films this seems to conquer the purple.

Maybe a Formulary fixer user can offer a better explanation.

gfeucht · May 13, 2022

Additional details- Formulary says No Hypoclear is needed. I’ve done with and without. Without hypo the first wash is very purple as normal and gradually fades away over the next 4-5 water changes. The final negative is not purple like a poorly-fixed neg.

It’s just weird seeing the fixer itself pour our purple.

amam · May 13, 2022

I used TF4 and TF5 fir a while reeked of ammonia too much for me, and I am skeptical of any company that says you don't need fixer remover with an ammonium thiosulfate fixer. ditch the stop bath, it's not necessary, use water instead (unless you are using soft efke emulsions) I'd get some fixer remover instead! ( and a clothespin for your nose ). PEEE U!

mshchem · May 13, 2022

gfeucht said:
Additional details- Formulary says No Hypoclear is needed. I’ve done with and without. Without hypo the first wash is very purple as normal and gradually fades away over the next 4-5 water changes. The final negative is not purple like a poorly-fixed neg.

It’s just weird seeing the fixer itself pour our purple.

There you are. Sounds like you have a answer.

Doremus Scudder · May 14, 2022

gfeucht said:
I am trying a switch to TF-5 fixer for film and noticed something a bit disconcerting: when I pour it out of the tank after fixing, it’s very purple/pink. About triple the amount of that same color after a normal first wash or hypo clearing. I’ve normally used Kodak rapid fixer and have never seen this before.

Is this normal for TF-5?

You don't mention which film you are using, but I'll bet that it's one that usually has lots of difficult-to-wash-out sensitizing dyes like TMY. A lot of people fix longer, treat longer in Hypo Clear, and wash longer to get rid of these stubborn dyes. I've found that they are "liberated" quite easily in an alkaline environment and sometimes use an alkaline bath before the final wash to get rid of the dyes.

Your TF-5, being slightly alkaline/neutral (compared to the acidic Kodak Rapid Fixer) may be dissolving more of these dyes during fixing, thereby turning your fixer pinkish/magenta. The subsequent pinkish first wash would tend to support this idea.

It won't harm the fix and will fade over time.

Doremus

MattKing · May 14, 2022

Doremus Scudder said:
It won't harm the fix and will fade over time.

This is the most important thing to understand.

Hilo · May 14, 2022

Just confirming it is normal for the fixer to be purple after having fixed Kodak films. For sure Tmax 400 which is what I use. Before Tmax came out I used Tri-X and if I remember correctly also Tri-X colored the fix purple.

I often develop Ilford FP4 at the same time (in a second tank) and that fix comes out clear.

Sirius Glass · May 15, 2022

TF4 and TF5 are the rare exceptions that do not need stop bath with or without indicator. I hope that helps you.

amam · May 15, 2022

Sirius Glass said:
TF4 and TF5 are the rare exceptions that do not need stop bath with or without indicator. I hope that helps you.

it is just speed fixer and it is not a rare exception. Stop bath is not needed or required when developing film with any rapid ammonium thiosulfate fixer.

MattKing · May 15, 2022

amam said:
it is just speed fixer and it is not a rare exception. Stop bath is not needed or required when developing film with any rapid ammonium thiosulfate fixer.

This - stop bath with film - is the subject of great passion here on Photrio, and I would guess that the two camps are about equal in size.
I spend time with the group that votes: "not strictly necessary, but beneficial in a couple of ways".
By the way, TF-4 and TF-5 are sufficiently buffered that you can use stop bath with them, if the quick action of stop bath is desired.

DREW WILEY · May 16, 2022

You're just picking up some of the residual anti-halation dye in the fixer. That's a good thing. I use alkaline TF4 with TMax, and during the final wash phase, any still remaining dye stain is quickly and entirely removed. The color of an indicator stop bath (which I do also use) has nothing to do with it unless it's overtly under-diluted and too strong.

TF-5 fixer turns purple - pink after Tri-X/Xtol

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TF-5 fixer turns purple - pink after Tri-X/Xtol

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