TF-4 Sediment

[Contax35]

How common is a black precipitate in Photographers Formulary TF-4 Fixer?

 

[DREW WILEY]

The ingredients of TF4 settle on the bottom, sometimes as a stubborn sludge. They say shake the jug; but that doesn't work very well. What I did was decanter off some of the liquid, then put a wooden dowel down in there are work the sediment stuck on the bottom back into solution.
Once that was done, I could pour back in the liquid I'd removed earlier, and at that point, rock the jug back and forth until it was all consistent.

I have since switched to TF5, which doesn't have this inconvenience.

 

[retina_restoration]

How common is a black precipitate in Photographers Formulary TF-4 Fixer?

Are you talking about the undiluted concentrate, or used, working solution?

 

[DREW WILEY]

Concentrate, undiluted. I never keep diluted solution around or re-use it. But I do know that that too can settle if left standing too long.

If you are re-using your diluted fixer, black particles might even be accumulating from film itself, though there are other possible explanations.
In any event, I'd filter it.

 

[Contax35]

This is for the made up working solution that I'm using for developing film. Of course, I'm pouring what I've used back in the bottle each time. Only have developed about 10 rolls over 2 months.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Of course? Well, I understand what you're doing. But I prefer to use TF4 and TF5 one-shot, and dilute only enough from concentrate for each individual session, and then discard it. That way I'm assured of its consistency.

 

[Contax35]

The ingredients of TF4 settle on the bottom, sometimes as a stubborn sludge. They say shake the jug; but that doesn't work very well. What I did was decanter off some of the liquid, then put a wooden dowel down in there are work the sediment stuck on the bottom back into solution.
Once that was done, I could pour back in the liquid I'd removed earlier, and at that point, rock the jug back and forth until it was all consistent.

I have since switched to TF5, which doesn't have this inconvenience.

 

[Contax35]

So it's not unusual. I may just filter the sediment for now and try TF-5 next time.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Right.

 

[Contax35]

Right.

Thx

 

[koraks]

Only have developed about 10 rolls over 2 months.

So you have a bottle of used, working strength fixer sitting around for 2 months and counting? You're probably just looking at silver dropping out of solution; often it plates the walls of whatever container you keep the fixer in.

I'd be hesitant to keep around used fixer around for more than a couple of weeks. Maybe TF4 is magical, IDK.

 

[Don_ih]

How common is a black precipitate in Photographers Formulary TF-4 Fixer?

It's common. It's more common if you get some developer in there. The black stuff is almost certainly silver. The impressive thing is you can have completely clear used TF4 fixer one day, then it can turn kinda glittery-looking with black particles suspended the next day. Don't filter it. Dump it.

 

[Saganich]

I believe it is magical. I run about 20+ rolls through a one liter working bottle over 6 months sometimes and silver does collect at the bottom of the bottle as you go along. It's never been an issue as far as I can tell, but I keep coffee filters around incase I get worried. I get plating out on D23 container walls but never saw that with TF4.

 

[Don_ih]

If silver is dropping out of the solution, you need to ask yourself "How is that happening and what does that mean with regard to complete fixing of my film?"

The cautious thing to do, if you can't answer those questions, is dump it out.

 

[chuckroast]

The ingredients of TF4 settle on the bottom, sometimes as a stubborn sludge. They say shake the jug; but that doesn't work very well. What I did was decanter off some of the liquid, then put a wooden dowel down in there are work the sediment stuck on the bottom back into solution.
Once that was done, I could pour back in the liquid I'd removed earlier, and at that point, rock the jug back and forth until it was all consistent.

I have since switched to TF5, which doesn't have this inconvenience.

I use TF-4 for film and have seen it precipitate out, but I've never had any trouble getting it back into solution simply by vigorous shaking of the container.

I use T-5 for paper, but given the prices these days, I am contemplating mixing up my own TF-2 which should serve both film and paper applications pretty well.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Well, again, I use both TF4 and TF5 strictly one-shot, just enough mixed from stock per session. If saving money is the object, then using it a little more dilute makes more sense than re-using it. Black sediment doesn't not automatically indicate silver precipitating out, though it is certainly one potential explanation. I've seen dark sediment separated from white sludge stuck to the bottom of brand new jugs of concentrate sitting around a long time in a photo supply store which didn't turn over their inventory very fast. It still stirred up and worked fine.

 

[Saganich]

If silver is dropping out of the solution, you need to ask yourself "How is that happening and what does that mean with regard to complete fixing of my film?"

The cautious thing to do, if you can't answer those questions, is dump it out.

Solution is saturated, or some oxidation making sulfide ions that are reacting with dissolved silver forming silver sulfide. Clip tests have been good out to about 25 roles/liter regardless of black sludge

 

[Don_ih]

Ok. You are recommending someone continue to use fixer that is sulfuring-out, which will sure enough fix the film but could also deposit silver sulfide on the film as it does it?

 

[John Wiegerink]

I use TF-4 for film and have seen it precipitate out, but I've never had any trouble getting it back into solution simply by vigorous shaking of the container.

I use T-5 for paper, but given the prices these days, I am contemplating mixing up my own TF-2 which should serve both film and paper applications pretty well.

TF-2 is the only fixer I now use and I really don't see any reason to change. Easy to make, works like a charm and fairly inexpensive. I always filter the TF-2 when I return it to the gallon jug I keep it in. That's a good routine whether it's TF-2 or any other reused photo mix.