Tetenal C41 procesing with Uniroller 352

[pradheep thavamani]

I am new to film developing at home. I am thinking of developing it with Uniroller 352 as a rotary development. Any suggestion? Also I would like to know should I use Kodak Photo-Flo for better output?

 

[koraks]

The drawback of the Uniroller is that it doesn't have a tempered water jacket/bath, so keeping the temperature at 37.8C/100F will be difficult.

Since the Tetenal kit already contains a stabilizer, separate Photoflo is not necessary and won't in fact give any advantage at all. Actually, using a separate photoflo bath after the stabilizer will rinse off most of the stabilizer, rendering it ineffective. Long story short: just use the supplied stabilizer as the final bath, then hang to dry.
I would recommend thoroughly washing the film before running it through the stabilizer bath.

 

[AgX]

The only advantage that device offers, is that you save bath volume due to rotating (but one can rotate/roll other tanks as Jobo etc. too, even without further devices) and that the rotation is done by a motor.
Unless you already got such device or can get it cheaper than a regular tank, I see no reason to acquire one.

To rotate a standard tank one can put it on a selfmade device consisting of a board and four furniture rollers.
But even more simple: just roll it up and down over a table. If you want to retain the minimal bath volume, put a thick O-ring or similar on the smaller diameter end, to make the tank level.

Or use about twice the bath volume and inverse it during processing.

You rather should consider ways to temper the processing baths and possible the tank too.
Think of a bassin filled with water tempered by a modern sous-vide device.
You then could either rotate the tank within such bassin or put it back there after each inversion cycle.

 

[pradheep thavamani]

The drawback of the Uniroller is that it doesn't have a tempered water jacket/bath, so keeping the temperature at 37.8C/100F will be difficult.

Since the Tetenal kit already contains a stabilizer, separate Photoflo is not necessary and won't in fact give any advantage at all. Actually, using a separate photoflo bath after the stabilizer will rinse off most of the stabilizer, rendering it ineffective. Long story short: just use the supplied stabilizer as the final bath, then hang to dry.
I would recommend thoroughly washing the film before running it through the stabilizer bath.

Thanks for the information. By the way I planning to use distilled water for mixing with chemicals also for the entire development process.

 

[pradheep thavamani]

The only advantage that device offers, is that you save bath volume due to rotating (but one can rotate/roll other tanks as Jobo etc. too, even without further devices) and that the rotation is done by a motor.
Unless you already got such device or can get it cheaper than a regular tank, I see no reason to acquire one.

To rotate a standard tank one can put it on a selfmade device consisting of a board and four furniture rollers.
But even more simple: just roll it up and down over a table. If you want to retain the minimal bath volume, put a thick O-ring or similar on the smaller diameter end, to make the tank level.

Or use about twice the bath volume and inverse it during processing.

You rather should consider ways to temper the processing baths and possible the tank too.
Think of a bassin filled with water tempered by a modern sous-vide device.
You then could either rotate the tank within such bassin or put it back there after each inversion cycle.

Actually I do own Uniroller but I haven't tried using it before. This is my first time I am trying to develop it by myself. I do own sous-vide to to maintain temperature on a basin. But I was thinking to use Uniroller for agitation.

 

[AgX]

Then you should use the bassin just for tempering the baths. For results nearing the aim you should consider the temperatue loss in the tank. Kodak once had a datasheet on processing C-41 in an untempered tank and how to establish the start temperature needed.

Otherwise think of the tempered alternatives I summed up. I do not know your tank, may be it can be used for inversion processing too. Or can be put on an improviserd roller into a bassin.Or just take out the motor of your roller device..

 

[btaylor]

I use a Uniroller and a Unicolor Film Drum for rotary C41 processing. The film drum is insulated to maintain temperature (mostly) and works well for me. If you don’t have a way to maintain temperature it would probably be easiest to simply hand agitate your tank in a sous code type tempering bath.

 

[pentaxuser]

Here is a thought for you pradheep. Most of the year it seems that the temperature is about 30 degrees centrigrade which is quite high. as far as I am aware the Tetenal kit gives a range of temperatures at which C41 film can be developed and I am sure that the range covers 30 degrees. So there may be no need for a water bath

So use the time for C41 at 30 degrees and see how it goes and let us know.

I need to add a warning here: A lot of members here who develop C41 films say that there is a risk of colour crossover at less than what is seem by them as the right temperature which is 37.8 degrees C but they all appear to admit that that colour crossover is not automatic at less than 37.8 and even it if happens it may not be noticeable in most cases

Best of luck

pentaxuser

 

[pradheep thavamani]

Here is a thought for you pradheep. Most of the year it seems that the temperature is about 30 degrees centrigrade which is quite high. as far as I am aware the Tetenal kit gives a range of temperatures at which C41 film can be developed and I am sure that the range covers 30 degrees. So there may be no need for a water bath

So use the time for C41 at 30 degrees and see how it goes and let us know.

I need to add a warning here: A lot of members here who develop C41 films say that there is a risk of colour crossover at less than what is seem by them as the right temperature which is 37.8 degrees C but they all appear to admit that that colour crossover is not automatic at less than 37.8 and even it if happens it may not be noticeable in most cases

Best of luck

pentaxuser

Thanks for the information. I’ll definitely let you know. But Tetenal instruction sheet does not say anything about agitation time during each step. Do you have any idea?

 

[pradheep thavamani]

I use a Uniroller and a Unicolor Film Drum for rotary C41 processing. The film drum is insulated to maintain temperature (mostly) and works well for me. If you don’t have a way to maintain temperature it would probably be easiest to simply hand agitate your tank in a sous code type tempering bath.

But Tetenal instruction sheet does not say anything about agitation time in each step. Any idea?

 

[pentaxuser]

If using a uniroller then the usual way is to continuously roll it for the full time. The Jobo processor does this automatically by means of a motor but I'd try to do the same by hand. This means turning it one way for 3 turns and then the other way for three turns. The real advantage with rotary processing by a motor or by hand is that you can use less of all the chemicals needed. So for instance if using a Jobo tank for a 135 film it requires only 140 ml whereas by inversion agitation every 30 seconds you need 250 ml so the film is always in the chemical

On its side and rotating all of the film is being covered in the chemical for nearly all of the time. It is as if it is constantly in the chemical so less is needed

I imagine your uniroller states how much chemical is needed for rotary processing. If it does then use that amount of each chemical

pentaxuser

 

[btaylor]

Developer time on my Unicolor base and drum is 3:15 for c41 @102f

 

[Kilgallb]

Developer time on my Unicolor base and drum is 3:15 for c41 @102f

I completely fill the drum with water at 104 degrees and rotate for one minute to get the drum up to temperature. This is in the unicolor C41 kit instructions.

I use a sous vida machine for the tempering bath.

 

[Randy Stewart]

To organize and correct a few of the replies above: The Unicolor 352 roller base is intended to rotary process prints and films in drums. For film, Such rotation means continuous agitation, which is not a problem as C-41 and E-6 processes are designed for such agitation. It is the periodic agitation used with DIY hand agitation which is the deviation from the official norm. For film processing, Unicolor sold an insulated "Film Drum" brought to process temp with hot water pre-bath. Once drum, reels and films are warned to process temp, there is little temp drop during any process step, The various chems and wash water are held at process temp (separate tempering bath) and used to maintain a uniform temperature through the process.
Stabilizers have not been phased out by modification of the films or chemicals. Where missing from a kit, that is a marketing and economic decision by the maker to risk the long life of your film. Practically, most folks scan their newly processed film and either discard or never use the film again, so such omission is a "so what" argument.
The stabilizer is the last step in either process after the wash. If you have hard water deposits on dried film, mix the stabilizer with distilled water.
If you have water spots on dried film, add a Photoflo to the stabilizer working solution @ 2 ml per liter. The kit stabilizers do not have a surfigent like Photoflo in them.
If you are totally anal about temperature drop during processing, Pick your process technique, equipment, etc., then run the developer (1st developer with E-6) process step with plan water, measuring the amount of temperature drop occuring. Then divide the drop by two and start the that process step by the normal temp plus that half additional. It's called the "drift by" method and works perfectly. All other process steps run to completion and are therefoie less sensitive to time/temp.

 

[AgX]

Stabilizers have not been phased out by modification of the films or chemicals. Where missing from a kit, that is a marketing and economic decision by the maker to risk the long life of your film. Practically, most folks scan their newly processed film and either discard or never use the film again, so such omission is a "so what" argument.

-) "Stabilizer" is a ambiguous term in photochenmistry and may designate chemicals of very different function.

-) Formaldehyd as free-coupler stabilizing agent in the final bath has been substituted by a different coupler stabilizing agent, located in a pre.bleach bath.

 

[MattKing]

And to add to AgX's post, in addition to the stabilizing agents added earlier in the process, the Final rinse chemical adds anti-bacterial components, to help extend the life of the film.
The traditional post-wash stabilizers were problematic due to their inclusion of Formaldehyde.

 

[AgX]

This is one of the ambiguities of the term "stabilizer". In your example: stabilizing residual colour coupler and stabilizing the gelatin, and thus the image, against depletion by microorganisms.


The term stabilizer is used ambiguously. It may mean
-) a chemical to stabilize the sensitometric characteristics of the emulsion before processing
-) a chemical to stabilize a residual coupler after processing.
-) a chemical to preserve the gelatin (ahnd thus the image) from depletion by microrganism
-) a chemical to keep residual processing chemicals from interacting after a washless process.

 

[foc]

As has been stated many times in as many different threads, modern C41 films ( year 2002 + approx) don't need C41 stabilizer, just a C41 final rinse bath.
The final rinse bath has an anti-bacterial agent added, as MattKing has stated.
I have looked at my own negatives from 2004, Fuji Reala, and they are perfect just like they were when processed and no stabilizer used just final rinse, no fungal marks etc.
Personally I would not recommend using a wetting agent with C41 processing. If you are getting drying marks then I would suggest the problem lies not in the final rinse as such but somewhere else.
I would investigate your water and maybe the use of (wait for it) a squeegee.

 

[AgX]

As has been stated many times in as many different threads, modern C41 films ( year 2002 + approx) don't need C41 stabilizer, just a C41 final rinse bath.

I did not question that, but the term in its ambiguity is there and furthermore we use obsolete materials too.

 

[Kilgallb]

As for stabilizer, here is a great reference form one of our own.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/the-definitive-word-i-hope-on-color-stabilzers.89149/