Testing the Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta III (Tessar 75mm)

[pabloo]

Hello!

I've recently acquired a very nice Zeiss Ikon Super Ikonta III from eBay, and I just finished shooting my first roll to check for any issues with it. I would like to get some help and advice about a potential problem.

Overall, the camera seems to be in great condition. The only issue I’ve noticed is that sometimes the shutter doesn’t release after I wind it (this happens only at speeds below 1/60). Other than that, the bellows are in good condition, and the lens is pristine, with just a bit of dust. However, here’s the problem: I think the coupled rangefinder is off by about 50 cm (20 inches). For example, if I focus on a tree, the bushes in front are in focus, but not the tree.

Here’s my theory about what might be causing the issue:

• The rangefinder is misaligned.
• The film isn’t sitting perfectly flat in the film plane, possibly due to its thinness, resulting in a small gap that affects focus.
• The lens is old, and its performance is simply characteristic of its age, so my expectations may be biased.
• The camera operator (me) is at fault...

Anyway, here are some photos from the first roll, shot on Fomapan 100 in Spain on a bright and clear day, using a tripod -> Link to a flickr album. (The photos have been processed with Darktable.)

• Photo 08: I don’t see any sharpness issues or other problems here.
• Photo 05: Focus was set on the trunk of the olive tree, but this one is quite blurry. Probably due to being shot at around f/4.
• Photo 13: Focused at infinity, likely at f/16 or f/22.
• Photo 15: Focus was set on the trunk, but the bush in front seems sharper. Shot at around f/5.6 or f/8.
• Photo 17: The wall is reasonably sharp, but again, the grass seems to be the focal point!

So, what do you think? Is there a real issue here, or is this just the signature look of a Tessar lens? I would really appreciate your feedback and any advice.

Cheers,
Pablo


P.S: since I'm new to the world of folders, I wonder: let's say I meter the light and the perfect setting would be1/75 with f/8, and 1/75 is not available and the closest is 1/60, does it work to "cheat" with the lense and move the cursor a bit above f/8 and not quite f/11 to compensate? Or does it induce any artifacts?

 

[ChrisGalway]

The Super Ikonta III is great, I love mine!

Honestly Pablo, I'd get the camera CLA'd and the rangefinder checked over ... and can recommend someone in Bizkaia (contact me offline if you're interested). The problems you describe are very typical of old folders (sticky shutters, rangefinder issues).

 

[Alan9940]

This sounds and looks a lot like the issue I had with my Super Ikonta III--things I knew I focused on were not particularly sharp while other areas nearby were sharp. I sent it away for CLA / repair and it turned out that the front lens/shutter assembly was not in perfect alignment with the film plane. Took about 6 months to get it back, but from that day forward everything I focus on is tack sharp!

 

[koraks]

Welcome to Photrio!

Photo 05: Focus was set on the trunk of the olive tree, but this one is quite blurry. Probably due to being shot at around f/4.

Actual focus point is slightly before the tree. It's visible that the zone of sharp focus is approached at the bottom of the frame.

Photo 15: Focus was set on the trunk, but the bush in front seems sharper. Shot at around f/5.6 or f/8.

Also front focused, like #05.

Photo 17: The wall is reasonably sharp, but again, the grass seems to be the focal point!

Yes, same; front focus.

Is there a real issue here, or is this just the signature look of a Tessar lens?

There's a real issue with focus. Assuming your technique is in order, the likely cause is a rangefinder that's slightly out of adjustment. The lens should be capable of plenty sharp enough images; much better than what you're getting here.

let's say I meter the light and the perfect setting would be1/75 with f/8, and 1/75 is not available and the closest is 1/60, does it work to "cheat" with the lense and move the cursor a bit above f/8 and not quite f/11 to compensate?

Yes, that will work. You can set intermediate aperture values. Don't try the same with shutter speeds; this may work on some shutters, but not all (actually not on most shutters).
However, in cases like these, where the 'correct' combination is unavailable, I just pick something close enough and call it good. Especially if you're shooting B&W negative roll film, 1/3 of a stop isn't going to make all that much of a difference.

 

[pabloo]

Thanks a lot for all your answers, they are very illuminating So I will proceed with getting it CLA'd. I don't know any good address for this, would you be so kind to give me some recommended people for the job?

Thanks!
Pablo

 

[koraks]

would you be so kind to give me some recommended people for the job?

You could try here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/repair-shops-in-and-out-of-business.210509
And/or use the forum search function to see what comes up.

In this case, I would personally start by just having a look at the camera myself and trying to fix the problem.

 

[pabloo]

You could try here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/repair-shops-in-and-out-of-business.210509
And/or use the forum search function to see what comes up.

In this case, I would personally start by just having a look at the camera myself and trying to fix the problem.

Thank you very much!

 

[ChrisGalway]

Thanks a lot for all your answers, they are very illuminating So I will proceed with getting it CLA'd. I don't know any good address for this, would you be so kind to give me some recommended people for the job?

Thanks!
Pablo

I can recommend Alex Varas Cameras very highly. https://alexvarascameras.com/ He is in Bilbao, I think there is no customs between Switzerland and the EU. He has done excellent work for me and the cost is modest.

Personally I would NOT fiddle with the camera myself unless I did not mind destroying it during a learning exercise!

 

[Dan Daniel]

In this case, I would personally start by just having a look at the camera myself and trying to fix the problem.

This depends, of course. Two issues. One is the mechanical experience to do things like handle those amazingly small set screws in the focus ring and not breaking off the sides of the slots. Two is understanding the basic process- set lens focus to infinity at film plane> set focus ring to infinity> set rangefinder to infinity> check rangefinder/film plane agreement at closer distances.

OP, a quick way to get an idea of what you are up against. Is the rangefinder aligned when you look at a far-away object? Meaning infinity? If so, then in your case you'll need to do the full procedure starting with lens focus on film plane. If the rangefinder image is not aligned at infinity in the viewfinder, then there is a chance that it is just the rangefinder that is out of adjustment. There's a lock screw and eccentric adjuster on the linkage between the shutter and camera body along the left side (from front) of the front cover; adjust to get alignment in viewfinder at infinity and run a test roll.

 

[Alex Varas]

I can recommend Alex Varas Cameras very highly. https://alexvarascameras.com/ He is in Bilbao, I think there is no customs between Switzerland and the EU. He has done excellent work for me and the cost is modest.

Personally I would NOT fiddle with the camera myself unless I did not mind destroying it during a learning exercise!

Thank you for the recommendation, Chris, I appreciate it.

Dan Daniel is right about checking the rangefinder first, watch out the screws for the infinity of the rangefinder, they can be hard to move and screws are easily spoiled.
After watching the photos I'm starting to think that someone moved something inside the rangefinder trying to adjust the image to infinity but moved the close focus point instead.

 

[Bwbuff]

Another vote for Alex Varas here, I had my Super Ikonta III serviced by Alex , and the camera comes back in perfect working condition. Nicely done.

 

[henryvk]

Thank you for the recommendation, Chris, I appreciate it.

Dan Daniel is right about checking the rangefinder first, watch out the screws for the infinity of the rangefinder, they can be hard to move and screws are easily spoiled.
After watching the photos I'm starting to think that someone moved something inside the rangefinder trying to adjust the image to infinity but moved the close focus point instead.

The RF mirror in the Ikonta III is attached to a small metal tab that it's easy to bump accidentally while removing the top cover.

If the tab has been bent out of whack it may no longer be possible to properly align the RF image at infinity via the adjustment screw in the linkage because the play is not sufficient. You have to *very carefully* bend the tab... which is tricky because it affects horizontal as well as vertical alignment of the RF. I've done it but it requires what's referred to as "Fingerspitzengefühl" in German, i.e. a gentle touch with an intuitive awareness.

If OP has never worked on rangefinders it might be best left to a professional.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

If you've never worked on rangefinder camera's, leave it to others. I've been there, it is not an easy camera to repair/service:

Super Ikonta 532/16 CLA II by Ron (Netherlands), on Flickr

They are quite prone to having spacing problems:

Super Ikonta 532/16 CLA I by Ron (Netherlands), on Flickr

Super Ikonta 532/16 CLA III by Ron (Netherlands), on Flickr

 

[SalveSlog]

I don't think that's the same camera, Ron!

 

[John Wiegerink]

I don't think that's the same camera, Ron!

No, the III has an entirely different non-prism rangefinder.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

sorry ...was too late at night I guess went I sent it in...


.. and after reading some posts still not sure what an Ikonta III looks like

 

[Dan Daniel]

 

[xya]

And if you want ome more information https://www.120folder.com/super_ikonta_iii.htm. In any case, if it works, it's one of the best!