Testing The 80A Filter For The Ortho Look.

Andrew O'Neill · Apr 8, 2024

I have my answer as to which filter is the most effective to give an ortho look on b/w pan film...
(link to previous testing with #44A, and #44: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/simulating-the-ortho-look-with-pan-film.205284/)

pentaxuser · Apr 8, 2024

Thank Andrew- another precise and all encompassing video on this subject. Unfortunately it brings a "Drat and curses" moment as the pirates say in pantomime What a pity that the only one or ones that come(s) close to Ilford Ortho is/are the one(s) that cannot be had for love nor money in the U.K.

Still it is what it is and I can sleep at night in the sure knowledge that if I want the ortho look I can get it by helping Ilford and hopefully boosting its coffers to get it to Kodak quality colour film

pentaxuser

Andrew O'Neill · Apr 8, 2024

pentaxuser said:
Thank Andrew- another precise and all encompassing video on this subject. Unfortunately it brings a "Drat and curses" moment as the pirates say in pantomime What a pity that the only one or ones that come(s) close to Ilford Ortho is/are the one(s) that cannot be had for love nor money in the U.K.

Still it is what it is and I can sleep at night in the sure knowledge that if I want the ortho look I can get it by helping Ilford and hopefully boosting its coffers to get it to Kodak quality colour film

pentaxuser

Ilford Ortho is an excellent film. I have several 120 rolls in the film fridge. It is available up to 8x10, but just too expensive for me. I'll be living on my teacher pension in the next few months, so purchasing a box is out of the question. CatLABS 80 will still be within reach, at least. Slap a 44A on it and Bob's yur uncle!

Doremus Scudder · Apr 8, 2024

Thanks for doing this Andrew!

I'm a bit baffled at why the 80A would darken yellow more than a #47 filter... It doesn't seem to make sense to me. Maybe someone with more knowledge of the reflection spectrum of bananas can add to my knowledge

Best,

Doremus

Nicholas Lindan · Apr 8, 2024

One advantage of the 80a is that it is plentiful and cheap and has a transmission curve close to the #47.

Mark Crabtree · Apr 8, 2024

I've tried most of the compromise suggestions for getting an ortho look and did not find they really gave that. This started with trying to understand the look of some historic pictures from my area I was interested in.

I finally got 44 or 44a gels and now use it to knock out the red sensitivity on aerial film I cut down to large format sizes for portraits. I tried the 80a as recently as last week on 35mm and did not get what I expected; now I can see why, or at least that I am not alone in that observation. They are commonly available, but if they don't give you what you want, then maybe not a bargain.

I started experimenting with cyan theater gels last year, but got sidetracked. They are very cheap and come in large sheets, so you can just cut more if they get scratched. The biggest issue with those is that I believe it will take more than one to fully get rid of the red sensitivity. I don't worry on whole plate and 8x10 portraits but don't really like to stack filters on smaller formats. Maybe unnecessary worry, but I'm sure others will already be bothered by the theater gels even one up.

Also, I assume ortho films varied in their color sensitivity just as panchromatic films have. The one thing we know is they weren't sensitive to red, so could be developed with a red safelight. I was shooting Fuji X-ray film for 11x14 portraits. I wonder how that compares to Ilford. Both are legitimately ortho, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are quite different from each other.

Andrew O'Neill · Apr 8, 2024

Mark Crabtree said:
I've tried most of the compromise suggestions for getting an ortho look and did not find they really gave that. This started with trying to understand the look of some historic pictures from my area I was interested in.

I finally got 44 or 44a gels and now use it to knock out the red sensitivity on aerial film I cut down to large format sizes for portraits. I tried the 80a as recently as last week on 35mm and did not get what I expected; now I can see why, or at least that I am not alone in that observation. They are commonly available, but if they don't give you what you want, then maybe not a bargain.

I started experimenting with cyan theater gels last year, but got sidetracked. They are very cheap and come in large sheets, so you can just cut more if they get scratched. The biggest issue with those is that I believe it will take more than one to fully get rid of the red sensitivity. I don't worry on whole plate and 8x10 portraits but don't really like to stack filters on smaller formats. Maybe unnecessary worry, but I'm sure others will already be bothered by the theater gels even one up.

Also, I assume ortho films varied in their color sensitivity just as panchromatic films have. The one thing we know is they weren't sensitive to red, so could be developed with a red safelight. I was shooting Fuji X-ray film for 11x14 portraits. I wonder how that compares to Ilford. Both are legitimately ortho, but I wouldn't be surprised if they are quite different from each other.

Yes, ortho films do vary in their spectral responses. Orto 50 and Ilford's Ortho 80, and very different (not including their different contrast renderings).

Doremus Scudder · Apr 9, 2024

Andrew,

After watching the video again, I can't help but thinking something is off somewhere. Especially the photos with you and the banana... (no, not what you're thinking ).

A #47 filter is a sharp-cut blue filter that transmits only blue light, effectively a minus-yellow filter.
An 80A filter is a color-conversion filter designed to tweak the spectrum of tungsten light to that of daylight. It does this by attenuating the red end of the spectrum, but still passes a substantial amount of green and yellow, even some orange and red.

I don't see how a #47 would render yellows "brighter" than the 80A; it seems counter to the physics to me. The darker rendering of the banana (and your face) with the 80A vs the #47 just doesn't seem to jibe.

Nor do I see how the 80A should render a more "blue-sensitive" look than the #47, which seems to be the case with some of the examples.

No chance you got results mixed up somewhere along the line, is there? Or maybe it's just the choice of overall exposure for the examples, which may not be exactly matched.

In any case, I think this warrants examining more closely. A #47 filter should mimic the old blue-sensitive emulsions, not ortho film, which is also sensitive to green.

Best,

Doremus

Andrew O'Neill · Apr 9, 2024

I double checked and the examples are not mixed up. I may have slightly underexposed the 80A and the banana shot, due to bellows ext.

Andrew O'Neill · Apr 9, 2024

... the lighting was fluctuating as well.

MarkS · Apr 9, 2024

The lesson that I take from these tests (and thank you for doing the work, Andrew) is that each of the filters has some value in b/w work; but that there is no one answer to the question. Subject matter and the light on the day will affect the final result.
I don't plan to re-create an ortho or blue-sensitive look in my own pictures, but should the chance arrive, I'll keep my #44A and #47B gels around.

Andrew O'Neill · Apr 9, 2024

You can't go wrong with the 44A!

Testing The 80A Filter For The Ortho Look.

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