Temperature of C41 developer

[cerber0s]

I've been using CineStill CS41 for developing my C41 and ECN-2 film. My current batch is reaching its end of life and I need a new one. CineStill is sold out over here, so I ordered a batch of Adox C-TEC 41. The C-TEC has developing charts for 30 degrees, and 38 degrees. Will the two temperatures yield identical results, or will there be a difference in say grain, contrast or color? Do you think the temperature will affect C41 film and ECN-2 film the same way?

 

[loccdor]

I've developed C-41 at lower temperatures and I think it did cause some color shifts, but nothing that was uncorrectable via a hybrid process. As far as analog RA4 printing goes, @koraks knows a lot about that, the color shifts will likely be more critical there.

Contrast is more determined by your agitation level.

Grain has more to do with your level of underexposure or the level of expiration of the film.

 

[brbo]

Use the search. It’s been discused many times here…

 

[pentaxuser]

An interesting questíon. The "standard" answer as far as I know is that yes at lower than 38C or 100F the colour is likely to be affected but its interesting that Adox would appear to think not based on its 2 temperatures - unless of course it mentions that there is a risk at 30C but one which may or may not be correctable with a hybrid process or even optical printing with RA4

Many years ago if I recall correctly Agfa has a range of temps at which it claimed that its C41 chems were OK and that range, again if Í recall correctly, had an even greater range than the 2 temps mention by Adox

It is also true what brbo says. It has been discussed here before, probably several times before but I remain unconvinced such a search will give you an unequivocal answer

pentaxuser

 

[cerber0s]

This is the chart. They say the developer can be used between 24 and 38 degrees as long as you compensate by increasing the developing time.

 

[halfaman]

The 4th run at 30° C is something I would not like to do regardless of color shifts...

 

[koraks]

Will the two temperatures yield identical results, or will there be a difference in say grain, contrast or color?

There will be differences in color rendition. If running the process at 38C is feasible for you, I'd certainly recommend doing so.

Do you think the temperature will affect C41 film and ECN-2 film the same way?

Yes, I'd expect it to be comparable. I've never been a big fan of running ECN2 film through C41 developer though. I don't like the crossover you get in the highlights. This can be mostly corrected in digital post processing however.

 

[pentaxuser]

View attachment 382371

This is the chart. They say the developer can be used between 24 and 38 degrees as long as you compensate by increasing the developing time.

It looks from what you say above that Adox uses the same range of temps as the former Agfa C41 chemicals did It would seem unusual for a company like Adox not to test the results at the lower, 24C, end of the temp range each and if there were problems, to not say so in its instruction sheet

pentaxuser

 

[koraks]

It would seem unusual for a company like Adox not to test the results at the lower, 24C, end of the temp range each and if there were problems, to not say so in its instruction sheet

I'd expect this is something maybe @ADOX Fotoimpex might be able to clarify.

 

[loccdor]

For what it's worth I develop C-41 and E-6 within a 35C-39C range and adjust the times. I try to get it as close to the high end of that as possible and if I drop below 35C I warm up the chems.

 

[lamerko]

In principle, the idea of compensating the developer's exhaustion with time extension would lead to more problems. Using Blix is also a prerequisite for problems. But Tetenal has done a lot of research and testing and found some reasonable compromise. However, these kits are intended for the home hobbyist, not a professional with full control. If you scan the negatives, you probably won't see any difference.
Still, using it at 38 degrees reduces the potential problems by a factor, and I'd stick with that scheme.

 

[Samu]

In principle, the idea of compensating the developer's exhaustion with time extension would lead to more problems. Using Blix is also a prerequisite for problems. But Tetenal has done a lot of research and testing and found some reasonable compromise. However, these kits are intended for the home hobbyist, not a professional with full control. If you scan the negatives, you probably won't see any difference.
Still, using it at 38 degrees reduces the potential problems by a factor, and I'd stick with that scheme.

Tetenal marketed their blix based C-41. and the 3-bath E-6 originally as press kits in the early 1980´s, when they entered in the market. Most of the modern home kits are copies of these - some are better, but some have been known to use shortcuts. Blix can lead into problems with film, and I personally don`t use any of those kits, and use Fuji chemistry instead for my color negatives and RA-4 papers. Combined bleach fix is used in commercial settings only with paper. The E6 3 bath process has even more issues, but this is an another story.

Ideally, the developer should be either used only once or alternatively replenished for optimal results. That said, moderate reuse with a small adjustment of times will produce negatives that are within the limits of acceptable results published by film manufacturers. I don`t have the equipment for analyzing test strips, so I can`t provide with exact numerical data on this matter. This does not mean that using one liter of developer for 20 rolls was ok, although some hobbyists with low expectations claim they can use their cheap-o kits for 30 rolls or more. I would probably agree with Fuji Hunt claiming you can use their 5L kit for approximately 12 films per liter without replenishing, but for "perfect" results, one-shot usage of the developer is recommended.

For CineStill or similar chemistry,, it is hard to say anything definite, as many of them seem to be nonstandard, with developers working in different temperatures with different times. It means no data by Fuji or Kodak concerning the standard process will apply. Tetenal used a standard developer for their C-41, with only the bleach fix being their own invention. This is not the case with many of the modern home kirs. This is also a reason to avoid using them.

 

[cerber0s]

Thank you for your replies! I got what I wanted.

I just developed the 10th roll in my CineStill CS 41 developer. There are some magenta color casts in the shadows, but it’s hard for me to tell if it’s the developer or the fact that it’s ECN-2 film.

A litre of C41 developer is almost $50 here. There’s no way I’ll use it as a one shot thing.

 

[lamerko]

However, let's not forget that Adox C-TEC 41 is exactly Tetenal. Probably the best of these home kits.