Tell me I don't need this... 205TCC + 110mm f/2

[Sirius Glass]

Do you need the focal plane shutter? Is it worth the risks of electronics and batteries in the future? Why not stick with mechanical shutters?

 

[Chris Livsey]

Do you need the focal plane shutter? Is it worth the risks of electronics and batteries in the future? Why not stick with mechanical shutters?

It's all about shooting that particular lens, the actual body model is largely irrelevant, so long as it has a FP shutter. They can of course be adapted to other bodies but they don't give that 6x6 coverage, I have been tempted but shot a few rolls wide open on the 80mm, which I rarely do, and decided the difference was not enough to justify the cost and risk, although early F bodies do go for little money and would do the job,. The sophistication of the current offer is the outfit's downfall unless you are going to switch over to that body as primary shooter. Get thee behind me GAS.

 

[Marco Gilardetti]

I definitely do not NEED it. Especially as I already have a fine 500 series. I am not even sure that I WANT it. As stated above, I do not even feel I have GAS. I see it the following way: tools open doors.
[...]
The questions are,
1) which door does a 205 + 110mm lens open to me, compared to the gear I already have; (I fear not that many)
2) what is the expense, apart from the money aspect (this one is easy, I just need to look at the price tag)

Dear etn, I think I've read all of your posts without getting a precise idea about how much money you would be going to spend on this, perhaps I've missed something.

Since you're basically changing the whole camera in order to use just one specific lens, my very humble advice will not be a "yes" or "no", but that you should at least *consider* what you could do in general with the same budget, which seems pretty much on the high side. The change from a mechanical body to a body overfilled with electronics might not open any significant new scenario for your photography; conversely it might give you problems on the long run (but I'm sure you have already weighted this point). The use of the lens you're mentioning may instead improve your photography a bit; however all Zeiss lenses are over-the-top, and even if this lens is especially good, I really can't imagine that it will ridiculize your current set-up. On the other hand, as I couldn't read figures but it seems we're talking about big bucks here, should the same budget be sufficient to buy a 6x7 format camera (and an enlarger, should yours not handle 6x7), well, then we're not talking about subtleties anymore, we're talking about a *huge* change in your photography.

I'm not really saying that you should buy a Mamiya RB67 or the Hasselblad integralists will crucify me: it was just an example, my suggestion is to consider what you could do with that money more in general. As a side note, I have no problem to confess that I also have purchased specific lenses for insane prices (well, insane for my wallet, that is) just because I was curious to try out myself how well such or such lens performed or if they were anything "special" as many people pretended; so I definitely sympathize with you.

 

[etn]

Hello everyone,

so thank you for your well thought-out answers and opinions! To summarize, the entire point of buying a 200-series body, to me, is indeed to use that 110mm lens. If we list the gains and risks:

Gains:
* 110mm focal length: I already have a 100mm and 120mm, so not much different here;
* f/2 lens aperture: here resides the entire point of the question. It would be nice to have for portraits, which represent maybe 25% of my photography. The rest is landscape/architecture, stopped down, generally on a tripod, so no need for a large aperture here.
* 1/2000 shutter speed: sometimes needed, but I can live without as I generally use low-speed film;
* body automation and spot metering: nice to have, but not needed, as I have a handheld spot meter as well as a spot metered prism for the 500;
* other F-lenses: apart from the 110 f/2, all other F lenses do not bring any significant value to my existing CF-lenses kit.

Risks & Costs:
* if the body fails, I can either sell the lens or find another 200-series body. Over 1000 euros loss in each case.
* and body failure stories abound, which is not really reassuring...

So I think I will skip on that one, as the benefits do not seem to be worth the costs and risks. If 200 series Hasselblads were praised for being models of reliability, or if bodies cost a couple hundred instead of over a thousand euros, (or if I were a millionaire ) it would be a different story. As Marco pointed out, spending the same amount into something radically different will bring me much more than a 205TCC + 110mm lens.

Cheers,
Etienne

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Gang,

Munich has the particularity that a large photo store is conveniently located next to the post office. So after shipping out my Photrio Blind Print Exchange assignment yesterday, I obviously had to stop at the photo store. Coming to the point, their 2nd hand department currently has a Hasselblad 205TCC in very good condition, sold together with the legendary 110mm f/2 lens. Everything works well and it looks like it has hardly been used. Price is about average for this I would say, no bargain but not unreasonably high either. Manufacturing year 1992.

I am a happy owner of a Hasselblad 500 kit with more or less every lens in the "sensible" range (i.e. no 500mm or 30mm fisheye, which I would hardly use.) I use the 120mm a lot, for macro as well as for portraits. So far I stayed away from 200 series Hassys for a reason - they are said to be unreliable and unrepairable, and your $3k camera can suddenly be turned into an expensive paperweight. Or so they say.

I could unload some other stuff I own and get this. But the real question is, would it really bring me anything compared to what I already have? Or in other words, is that 110mm lens so extraordinary different that it justifies getting a 200-series body, with the inherent risk, to use it? Is the risk of getting an expensive paperweight really that high? Are other (later?) models preferable to the 205TCC? In your eyes, are those 2 stops difference (compared to the 100mm f/3.5 or 120 f/4) really worth that much money? etc. etc.

Please shoot me your opinions, thanks!

As you said, you do not need this but if you want it go for it;it is only money, right?

 

[Sirius Glass]

It's all about shooting that particular lens, the actual body model is largely irrelevant, so long as it has a FP shutter. They can of course be adapted to other bodies but they don't give that 6x6 coverage, I have been tempted but shot a few rolls wide open on the 80mm, which I rarely do, and decided the difference was not enough to justify the cost and risk, although early F bodies do go for little money and would do the job,. The sophistication of the current offer is the outfit's downfall unless you are going to switch over to that body as primary shooter. Get thee behind me GAS.

Ah, now that that is clarified, thank you. I will have to learn more about that lens. For the meantime I will play with my 100mm lens and if I can get off my butt and got to a wildlife reserve use the 500mm lens.

 

[wiltw]

so thank you for your well thought-out answers and opinions! To summarize, the entire point of buying a 200-series body, to me, is indeed to use that 110mm lens. If we list the gains and risks:

Gains:...
* f/2 lens aperture: here resides the entire point of the question. It would be nice to have for portraits, which represent maybe 25% of my photography. The rest is landscape/architecture, stopped down, generally on a tripod, so no need for a large aperture here.

* 1/2000 shutter speed: sometimes needed, but I can live without as I generally use low-speed film

Just a couple of comments on the above points

1. With 110mm at 10' from subject, the difference in DOF (assuming 20/20 vision viewer) is 2.4" vs. 3.4" (at f/2.8), which a lot of clients would object to why their images have such blurry areas when razor thin DOF is used by the (mostly amateur) photographer.
2. Let us assume you use ISO 125 film (for convenient EV math), in bright sunlight Sunny 16, 1/125 f/16, your Hassy 500 leaf shutter means that you can get to 1/500 f/8, and then you are forced to use ND filters if you need shallower DOF (such as to more strongly blur a distracting background behind a portraiture subject). With the 205TCC you can get to 1/2000 f/4 without the need for ND...and achieve the shallower DOF you need.

 

[cowanw]

Actually body failure stories do not abound, at least no more than any other camera of the last century. What does abound seems to be the fear of electronic failure of this particular model, so I would assume all the other cameras of 35mm or 645 of similar vintage cause as much angst.
My take is that the 200 series models are the pinnacle of the Hasselblad film camera. I worry more of my Contax 167 35 mm electronics failing.

 

[spijker]

Some thoughts from a non-hasselblad user. Are these 200 series focal plane shutters really that unreliable? These are pro cameras after all. Not being able to repair them is a bummer but if the camera isn't used heavily there is probably still lots of "life" in it. You may want to ask the camera store what the history of the camera is. And if the focal plane shutter dies, would a repair shop be able to disable/open it permanently so you could still use the leaf shutters in the other lenses? Ok, you can't use the 110mm lens anymore but the 205 camera would then be a fancy 500 camera with built in metering. Don't know if this is realistic, anyone? The 110mm lens will hold its value regardless. So in that sense the financial risk might be less than you think.

 

[TheRook]

You don't need it.
You already have the Hasselblad 500, a very fine camera.

 

[Slixtiesix]

If you want a shallow depth of field lens for portraiture, you may also consider the 180/4. A very fine lens as well. Might be the cheaper and easier solution. The look is different from the 110/2 though.

 

[Chris Livsey]

Actually body failure stories do not abound, at least no more than any other camera of the last century.

Some thoughts from a non-hasselblad user. Are these 200 series focal plane shutters really that unreliable? .

I don't think, and have no actual figures to back this up, that the failure rate is higher at all for the F series. The most vulnerable part is the rather large metal shutter which was quoted as a replacement costing $550 installed by Hasselbald in 2001.
The failure rate is not really the issue it is the death rate, a 500 series failure is very rarely fatal, the camera can be repaired, an F is almost certainly beyond resuscitation, the parts are not available nor are technicians willing or able (no parts) to work on them.
http://www.david-odess.com/repair.html Well respected: No service for example.
My take would be, if it is just for the lens buy the least expensive, decent looking, F series body and be prepared to, if it fails, bury it with all military honours.

 

[JensH]

Dear Etienne,

no, you don't need it... and under no circumstances you should even think of getting a F2.8/150 TCC for it later. ;-)

Best
Jens

a Hasselblad 205TCC in very good condition, sold together with the legendary 110mm f/2 lens.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Actually body failure stories do not abound, at least no more than any other camera of the last century. What does abound seems to be the fear of electronic failure of this particular model, so I would assume all the other cameras of 35mm or 645 of similar vintage cause as much angst.
My take is that the 200 series models are the pinnacle of the Hasselblad film camera. I worry more of my Contax 167 35 mm electronics failing.

Some thoughts from a non-hasselblad user. Are these 200 series focal plane shutters really that unreliable? These are pro cameras after all. Not being able to repair them is a bummer but if the camera isn't used heavily there is probably still lots of "life" in it. You may want to ask the camera store what the history of the camera is. And if the focal plane shutter dies, would a repair shop be able to disable/open it permanently so you could still use the leaf shutters in the other lenses? Ok, you can't use the 110mm lens anymore but the 205 camera would then be a fancy 500 camera with built in metering. Don't know if this is realistic, anyone? The 110mm lens will hold its value regardless. So in that sense the financial risk might be less than you think.

The shutters are fragile and a little mishandling will do a lot of damage. Repairs are expensive if the parts are available. Stick to the mechanical shutters.

 

[philipus]

Hi Etienne

In case it is of assistance I picked a 203FE instead of the 205 because I found the spot meter too limiting. The 203 has a fairly large spot average meter which is incredibly accurate. I'm not saying the 205's meter is inaccurate, but for my type of photography it is considerably easier to just point and shoot and leave the rest to the auto exposure and film's flexibility to accept some variety in exposure failure. But perhaps this is not how you use your Hasselblads. For me the 203 is both a walkabout spontaneous/street shooting camera and tripod camera for landscape and architecture and I enjoy having the built-in meter for both types of photography. 1/2000 is very useful in many situations, I find.

That said, I wouldn't by a new body, and effectively a new camera system, just for a lens. But don't forget the 200 series are extremely flexible in that they can use the C and CF lenses too. This was another selling point for me as I like to use old lenses too.

As for reliability of the 200 series, I haven't seen any masses of complaints online. The 2000 series is a different story, in particular due to the lack of parts for the rear shutter assembly and the fact that the tinfoil shutter is extremely delicate. I believe it is still possible to service the 200 series. I know Will van Manen here in the Netherlands does, at least to some extent, and Hasselblad in Gothenburg does too. I've shot quite a few rolls with mine, probably 300-400, in the few years I've mine and it ticks along nicely.

Best
Philip

Hello everyone,

so thank you for your well thought-out answers and opinions! To summarize, the entire point of buying a 200-series body, to me, is indeed to use that 110mm lens. If we list the gains and risks:

Gains:
* 110mm focal length: I already have a 100mm and 120mm, so not much different here;
* f/2 lens aperture: here resides the entire point of the question. It would be nice to have for portraits, which represent maybe 25% of my photography. The rest is landscape/architecture, stopped down, generally on a tripod, so no need for a large aperture here.
* 1/2000 shutter speed: sometimes needed, but I can live without as I generally use low-speed film;
* body automation and spot metering: nice to have, but not needed, as I have a handheld spot meter as well as a spot metered prism for the 500;
* other F-lenses: apart from the 110 f/2, all other F lenses do not bring any significant value to my existing CF-lenses kit.

Risks & Costs:
* if the body fails, I can either sell the lens or find another 200-series body. Over 1000 euros loss in each case.
* and body failure stories abound, which is not really reassuring...

So I think I will skip on that one, as the benefits do not seem to be worth the costs and risks. If 200 series Hasselblads were praised for being models of reliability, or if bodies cost a couple hundred instead of over a thousand euros, (or if I were a millionaire ) it would be a different story. As Marco pointed out, spending the same amount into something radically different will bring me much more than a 205TCC + 110mm lens.

Cheers,
Etienne

 

[johnielvis]

Do you need the focal plane shutter? Is it worth the risks of electronics and batteries in the future? Why not stick with mechanical shutters?

word to the wise! barndoor shutter gives good time on/off or with a timer...best with a flash! You may want to get a 500c or OLD 500cm with the barndoor shutter synch and use the focal plane hassy lense---NOTE..you gotta check---some of them hassy lenses for focal plane only OPEN the aperture fullly when the barndoors open. So it's hit and miss unless you use the "depth of field preview" function on the lens and keep it stopped down....but since you obviously want full open--go ahead---use the mechanical barndoor shutter in back with strobe...works for me on the cheep!

 

[k.hendrik]

Why are so many people typo Hasslebald? nobody does this with Rolleiflex sl66se...

 

[Sirius Glass]

Why are so many people typo Hasslebald? nobody does this with Rolleiflex sl66se...

Because it must be a hassle to spell it correctly. I have seen more than a few Rollies around here though.

 

[k.hendrik]

or causality

 

[andyvan]

Buy it !, the 205 series has a 1/2,000 sec. Shutter speed, so you can use it outside in landscapes without ND, and it's got a spot meter accurate to 1/12 th of an EV, well worth it, besides, All lenses work, you don't need to go all "fe", just these are fully coupled, no need to use stop down metering.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Gang,

Munich has the particularity that a large photo store is conveniently located next to the post office. So after shipping out my Photrio Blind Print Exchange assignment yesterday, I obviously had to stop at the photo store. Coming to the point, their 2nd hand department currently has a Hasselblad 205TCC in very good condition, sold together with the legendary 110mm f/2 lens. Everything works well and it looks like it has hardly been used. Price is about average for this I would say, no bargain but not unreasonably high either. Manufacturing year 1992.

I am a happy owner of a Hasselblad 500 kit with more or less every lens in the "sensible" range (i.e. no 500mm or 30mm fisheye, which I would hardly use.) I use the 120mm a lot, for macro as well as for portraits. So far I stayed away from 200 series Hassys for a reason - they are said to be unreliable and unrepairable, and your $3k camera can suddenly be turned into an expensive paperweight. Or so they say.

I could unload some other stuff I own and get this. But the real question is, would it really bring me anything compared to what I already have? Or in other words, is that 110mm lens so extraordinary different that it justifies getting a 200-series body, with the inherent risk, to use it? Is the risk of getting an expensive paperweight really that high? Are other (later?) models preferable to the 205TCC? In your eyes, are those 2 stops difference (compared to the 100mm f/3.5 or 120 f/4) really worth that much money? etc. etc.

Please shoot me your opinions, thanks!

just get the lens!

 

[Don_ih]

Buy it !

I think the moment may have passed.

 

[andyvan]

I think the moment may have passed.

Soo sorry for your loss, but keep an eye out, also being 2004 ish vintage, the most modern day hassy you could get, of the v's, except for the 907x, but for us 'collectors '&users, of course!;the body of this 200/500 series is iconic and part of its charm.

 

[JPD]

Soo sorry for your loss, but keep an eye out, also being 2004 ish vintage, the most modern day hassy you could get, of the v's, except for the 907x, but for us 'collectors '&users, of course!;the body of this 200/500 series is iconic and part of its charm.

I think he is referring to that this thread is from 2018. But it's certainly not too late to look for fine Hasselblad lenses.

 

[RezaLoghme]

Soo sorry for your loss, but keep an eye out, also being 2004 ish vintage, the most modern day hassy you could get, of the v's, except for the 907x, but for us 'collectors '&users, of course!;the body of this 200/500 series is iconic and part of its charm.

What do you think about the late 200 series body with all these extra buttons and blue racing stripes? Too much, or too cool?