Tank Size?

runswithsizzers · Jan 21, 2019

Recently, I started shooting 135 b&w film and want to start developing film at home. I am also taking a class in medium format photography, and I *may* want to add 120 film in the future. I haven't done any developing since the early 1970s, so for practical purposes, I know nothing.

I am trying to decide whether I want to process single rolls or wait until I have two rolls and develop them together. If I get a tank big enough for two rolls of 120, will that require using too much developer (wasting it) or otherwise complicate developement if I process a single roll of 135 in the same tank? That is, will one reel of 135 film get over/under agitated in a 1 quart tank with 16 oz developer? Do I need to put in enough empty reels to fill up the tank?

The photography class instructor recommends the Hewes Pro reels. Can anyone recommend a specific model of tank (or ones to avoid)?

MattKing · Jan 21, 2019

Welcome!
And in particular, welcome back to film development.
You can develop one roll of film in a tank sized for more rolls. You aren't required to use a full tank of chemicals - using enough to fully cover the reel with the film alone should be fine. If you are using developer "one-shot" - i.e. you are using it once and then discarding it - the extra air sloshing through the developer as you agitate probably won't make much difference. If you tend to re-use your developer, it might oxidize more quickly, so you might get slightly fewer rolls of development out of a given quantity.
You do need to do something to ensure that the reel with film stays submerged. Empty reels on top are an excellent choice.
The Hewes Pro reels are excellent. Obviously you need tanks designed for steel reels to use them. I have both steel tanks and plastic tanks that work with them, and there are pros and cons for each. The biggest issue is how well the lids fit, whether (or really how much) they tend to leak, and how quickly or slowly they tend to pour.
I've had all my tanks for years, so I'm not the best one to ask about new ones currently available.
If I were you, I might seriously consider a plastic tank suitable for a single 120 reel or two 35mm reels. They are functional, flexible, and take very little space. If you end up doing enough 120 film to justify a larger tank, you will probably appreciate having two tanks of different sizes instead.
Personally, I find the plastic AP reels easier to use for 120, and the steel reels most efficient to use for 135, but the "plastic vs. steel" reel debate is one that there are thousands of posts about, so no need to go into that here.

mshchem · Jan 21, 2019

It's a life long debate between stainless and plastic . Below is a link to a version of what I started with. Easy to load, we'll made, in England. 28 bucks for tank and 2 reels.300 mL developer per roll of 35mm, steel tanks use 250mL. If you decide to go with stainless, buy Hewes reels for 35mm, B&H gets 40 bucks for each 35mm reel. I would try the Paterson, I developed color and black and white with Paterson. 28 bucks you can develop 35mm or 120.

I have a room full of developing tanks. I use a Jobo processor today. If I could only have one setup I would get a couple Paterson tanks and some HC-110 developer. Easy-to-use.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/886586-REG/Paterson_Universal_Tank_with_Two.html

runswithsizzers · Jan 21, 2019

MattKing said:
Welcome!
[...] The Hewes Pro reels are excellent. Obviously you need tanks designed for steel reels to use them.
[...]

Thanks for ypur input!

Are there tanks that will work with only steel - or only plastic - reels? So far I haven't noticed any mention in the tank descriptions that they are for designed specifically for one kind of reel or the other. I know the height of the tank is related to the film format and number of rolls, but I assume the inside diameters are standardized to accept either plastic or steel reels; yes? no?

Luckless · Jan 21, 2019

If you're debating between a tank that could take one reel or two, don't forget the option of getting both... (and if budget is a worry, then buy for what you expect to use here and now, and worry about what you might use more later on.)

I forget how many reels I have in my current collection, but I have 2 tanks that can take a pair of 120 reels, and 1 tank that can take a single reel. (And I also typically will double stack rolls of 120 films on 120/220 reels - It can be a bit tricky to get on, and I avoid it for super critical rolls, but it otherwise saves time and chemistry.)

Having extra tanks means you have the option of shooting a bunch of film, and more easily processing it all at one time. And having extra reels for your tanks means you can have faster turn around after a developing session to do another one. (getting reels to dry, at least the plastic ones, is a bit of a pain as even a tiny drop missed in a crack can cause a bit of a grief.) So while I typically only develop 1-4 rolls of 120 at a time, it is nice to have the option to do more at one time. Or to load up tanks with different film, and process them together/back to back with a single setup of all my developing gear.

If you get both the large and small tank, then you can have the option of things like, developing a pair of rolls of your normal speed, and then one 'odd-ball' roll of a high or low speed film.

I have yet to try over lapping my tanks' developments, but I have seen a few people on YouTube who will start development on one tank, then pour chemistry into the second tank between agitations. Personally I just refill my developer and will start a second tank while I wash the first.

Another personal note, I find the 2x120 reel tanks to be a very comfortable size to handle. Not sure I would really like a tank any larger than that for hand development, as it seems like filling and emptying might take longer than I'm comfortable with, plus it seems like they would get more awkward to handle.

mshchem · Jan 21, 2019

runswithsizzers said:
Thanks for ypur input!

Are there tanks that will work with only steel - or only plastic - reels? So far I haven't noticed any mention in the tank descriptions that they are for designed specifically for one kind of reel or the other. I know the height of the tank is related to the film format and number of rolls, but I assume the inside diameters are standardized to accept either plastic or steel reels; yes? no?

Jobo works only with Jobo. No reason to buy Jobo unless you have a processor. Paterson works with Paterson not Jobo. Hewes makes expensive reels, stainless that will fit both Paterson and Jobo center columns.

Stainless steel tanks will not take any plastic reel. Plastic reels are too large diameter . Most SS tanks have similar diameter. Not plastic. There are larger diameter SS tanks designed for 220 roll film that is no longer made.

The basic Paterson tank that I provided a link to, will process 35mm, 127, 120, or 220 film.

runswithsizzers · Jan 21, 2019

mshchem said:
It's a life long debate between stainless and plastic . Below is a link to a version of what I started with. Easy to load, we'll made, in England. 28 bucks for tank and 2 reels.300 mL developer per roll of 35mm, steel tanks use 250mL. If you decide to go with stainless, buy Hewes reels for 35mm, B&H gets 40 bucks for each 35mm reel. I would try the Paterson, I developed color and black and white with Paterson. 28 bucks you can develop 35mm or 120.

I have a room full of developing tanks. I use a Jobo processor today. If I could only have one setup I would get a couple Paterson tanks and some HC-110 developer. Easy-to-use.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/886586-REG/Paterson_Universal_Tank_with_Two.html

Thanks for your reply! As the proverbial retiree-on-a-fixed-income, I admit the price of the Hewes reels is of some concern. But even more of a concern for me is how easy the reels are to load. As I recall, this was big problem for me back when I first tried home developing many years ago (almost certainly with whatever reels were cheapest at that time). When my class instructor handed me her Hewes reel and some 135 film, I was immediately able to load it, no problems. The reviews on B&H and Amazon seem to be more enthusiastic for the Hewes steel reels than for the Patterson plastic reels, which get a few more complaints, especially for 120.

I haven't tried loading 120 on a reel yet, but soon will as part of this class. Would those who develop both 135 and 120 say loading 120 film on the reels is easier or more difficult than 135?

I don't really care if the tanks are stainless or plastic as long as the liquids go in and out fast, and the lids don't leak too much.

John Koehrer · Jan 21, 2019

Hewes make steel reels for the Jobo 1500 tanks at least that's what the interweb says. Freestyle is their reference. Personally the 120 film is a tiny bit more finicky because it's wide enough that it flexes a bit more. Just a bit more delicate a touch is needed but no big deal.

runswithsizzers · Jan 21, 2019

mshchem said:
Jobo works only with Jobo. No reason to buy Jobo unless you have a processor. Paterson works with Paterson not Jobo. Hewes makes expensive reels, stainless that will fit both Paterson and Jobo center columns.

Stainless steel tanks will not take any plastic reel. Plastic reels are too large diameter . Most SS tanks have similar diameter. Not plastic. There are larger diameter SS tanks designed for 220 roll film that is no longer made.

The basic Paterson tank that I provided a link to, will process 35mm, 127, 120, or 220 film.

Thanks for clearing that up for me!

MattKing · Jan 21, 2019

runswithsizzers said:
Thanks for ypur input!

Are there tanks that will work with only steel - or only plastic - reels? So far I haven't noticed any mention in the tank descriptions that they are for designed specifically for one kind of reel or the other. I know the height of the tank is related to the film format and number of rolls, but I assume the inside diameters are standardized to accept either plastic or steel reels; yes? no?

The comments above about what reels fit in what tanks are substantially correct, but there are a few wrinkles.
Steel reels are not adjustable - they are used for a single film size only.
Most plastic reels are adjustable and can be used for both 135 and 120.
There are plastic tanks that are designed to fit steel reels like the Hewes reels, although I don't know whether there are any currently being manufactured. They are the same size and shape as the steel tanks that are designed to fit the steel reels. They have plastic lids, whereas the metal tanks come either with metal lids or plastic lids.
Hewes makes steel reels in two versions. One version is designed to fit on the columns/cores in JOBO tanks, whereas the other version only fits in the tanks with no columns/cores.
JOBO reels fit in JOBO tanks, but over the years there have been different sizes of tanks and reels designed for those different sizes.
Paterson reels are the plastic ones that are probably most prevalent. Not surprisingly, they fit into both the current Super System 4 Paterson tanks (which I like) and the older System 4 Paterson tanks.
Paterson reels also fit in Sidekick processor tanks (don't worry about those for now) and some other tanks which are available as various house brands (Freestyle's Arista brand being one) and other names. They are/were manufactured by AP - a Spanish company - who also sell the tanks under their own name. Those tanks come in two versions, and AP's/Freestyle's other house brand reels also come in two versions, and they will work in the Paterson tanks.
Are you confused yet?
I like and slightly prefer loading 135 on to steel reels, but struggle loading 120 on to steel reels. So as a result, I use my plastic reels more than my steel reels.
Personally, I find the Arista Premium/AP tanks and plastic reels to be an excellent choice. I find the adjustable reels, when set for the 120 setting, to be the easiest reels to load 120 film on to. And when those reels are set for 135, they are certainly as easy to use as the Paterson reels.
Here is a link to one of the listings on Freestyle's site: https://www.freestylephoto.biz/5041-Arista-Premium-Double-Reel-Developing-Tank-with-Two-Reels
That tank will permit you to develop one 120 roll or two 135 reels or (and this is something for later) two 120 rolls on the same reel.
I actually use those reels more with Paterson tanks. In particular, the tank that can hold two of those reels set for 120 size. Here is the Freestyle link for one of those: https://www.freestylephoto.biz/116-Paterson-116-Multireel-3-Film-Developing-Tank-without-Reels

mshchem · Jan 21, 2019

Cheap SS reels are a pain. New, clean and dry Paterson reels are very easy to load 120, or 35mm. I'm 62, I use infrared night vision goggles . I can load anything . If you are on a budget I would start with a brand new Paterson tank. New reels are clean and not sticky. Used plastic reels get stained and gummed up.

If you have money, find a couple used Kindermann tanks with plastic lids. Buy a 2 reel 35mm (1 120) tank and a 4 reel 35mm (2 120) tank. Then buy Hewes 35mm and good used 120 reels .

I have accumulated 36 Hewes 35mm reels for a 3 1/2 gallon large tank. I bought them all used. Look at Craigslist, there are plenty of folks that just want to be rid of darkroom stuff. There's a lot of junk out there but some nice things too.

mshchem · Jan 21, 2019

Here's a great comparison of different PLASTIC reels

mshchem · Jan 21, 2019

The really easy way to load anything. Don't use with IR film. I paid 40 bucks for a used pair of these night vision goggles . It's cheating ,but I'm old and I don't like to fail.

runswithsizzers · Jan 22, 2019

MattKing said:
The comments above about what reels fit in what tanks are substantially correct, but there are a few wrinkles.
Steel reels are not adjustable - they are used for a single film size only.
Most plastic reels are adjustable and can be used for both 135 and 120.
There are plastic tanks that are designed to fit steel reels like the Hewes reels, although I don't know whether there are any currently being manufactured. They are the same size and shape as the steel tanks that are designed to fit the steel reels. They have plastic lids, whereas the metal tanks come either with metal lids or plastic lids.
Hewes makes steel reels in two versions. One version is designed to fit on the columns/cores in JOBO tanks, whereas the other version only fits in the tanks with no columns/cores.
JOBO reels fit in JOBO tanks, but over the years there have been different sizes of tanks and reels designed for those different sizes.
Paterson reels are the plastic ones that are probably most prevalent. Not surprisingly, they fit into both the current Super System 4 Paterson tanks (which I like) and the older System 4 Paterson tanks.
Paterson reels also fit in Sidekick processor tanks (don't worry about those for now) and some other tanks which are available as various house brands (Freestyle's Arista brand being one) and other names. They are/were manufactured by AP - a Spanish company - who also sell the tanks under their own name. Those tanks come in two versions, and AP's/Freestyle's other house brand reels also come in two versions, and they will work in the Paterson tanks.
Are you confused yet?
I like and slightly prefer loading 135 on to steel reels, but struggle loading 120 on to steel reels. So as a result, I use my plastic reels more than my steel reels.
Personally, I find the Arista Premium/AP tanks and plastic reels to be an excellent choice. I find the adjustable reels, when set for the 120 setting, to be the easiest reels to load 120 film on to. And when those reels are set for 135, they are certainly as easy to use as the Paterson reels.
Here is a link to one of the listings on Freestyle's site: https://www.freestylephoto.biz/5041-Arista-Premium-Double-Reel-Developing-Tank-with-Two-Reels
That tank will permit you to develop one 120 roll or two 135 reels or (and this is something for later) two 120 rolls on the same reel.
I actually use those reels more with Paterson tanks. In particular, the tank that can hold two of those reels set for 120 size. Here is the Freestyle link for one of those: https://www.freestylephoto.biz/116-Paterson-116-Multireel-3-Film-Developing-Tank-without-Reels

Whew! Thanks for the detailed breakdown! I think I got it.

I will get some hands-on experience with developing 120 in the next few weeks, using whatever reels and tanks the university provides. I may hold off on buying my home kit for 135 until after I have some actual experience with 120 in the school darkroom.

R.Gould · Jan 22, 2019

I always use Peterson plastic tanks and reels for developing 35mm and 120, you can get what they call a Unirveel tank with 2 reels, in which you can develop 235mm films in two reels or 2 120 films double loaded onto 1 reel in the tank, with 35mm 1 film just load 1 reel, put the second reel on top and use the chemicals for 1 film ( in the paterson tank 300m or 600 for two, for the120 it s 500ml

jvo · Jan 24, 2019

as you can tell there are fans (fanatics) for plastic or stainless steel - all with good reason. you will become one also - AND, you may switch over time!

me, i'm stainless steel tanks and reels, mainly because I process 2 reels of 120 film at a time and ss tanks do it handily with room left over. They also use less than 950ml/32oz of chemical, which i store in amber glass bottles. there is a lot of preference for hewes reels; me i've used the same el-cheapo's for 30 years and they've been fine and wouldn't "go to the dark-side" - most plastic being black!

I'd find a film/photrio person near you and spend a day with them... bring a couple of rolls of film, use their setup, and work through the processing with them - it will become a whole lot clearer and fun for both. (buy lunch). if whatever they use seems easy, fun and effective maybe that's the way you go, or not.

welcome to photrio - have fun.

p.s. you'll never stop wondering, and learning

runswithsizzers · Jan 25, 2019

jvo said:
as you can tell there are fans (fanatics) for plastic or stainless steel - all with good reason. you will become one also - AND, you may switch over time!

me, i'm stainless steel tanks and reels, mainly because I process 2 reels of 120 film at a time and ss tanks do it handily with room left over. They also use less than 950ml/32oz of chemical, which i store in amber glass bottles. there is a lot of preference for hewes reels; me i've used the same el-cheapo's for 30 years and they've been fine and wouldn't "go to the dark-side" - most plastic being black!

I'd find a film/photrio person near you and spend a day with them... bring a couple of rolls of film, use their setup, and work through the processing with them - it will become a whole lot clearer and fun for both. (buy lunch). if whatever they use seems easy, fun and effective maybe that's the way you go, or not.

welcome to photrio - have fun.

p.s. you'll never stop wondering, and learning

Thanks for the input. As part of a medium format photography class I am taking, we will develop our first rolls of 120 film on Monday. The university uses Hewes reels and stainless tanks with plastic lids.

For my home developing aspirations, I was able to buy a couple of used Hewes ss reels for 135 at a reasonable price on an auction site; now I just need to find a tank and some clips.

CropDusterMan · Jan 25, 2019

I'm a huge fan of Jobo 1520 tanks. 2 rolls of 35 or 1 roll of 120. B&H USA sells them or avail on Ebay.

Pieter12 · Jan 25, 2019

runswithsizzers said:
Thanks for the input. As part of a medium format photography class I am taking, we will develop our first rolls of 120 film on Monday. The university uses Hewes reels and stainless tanks with plastic lids.

For my home developing aspirations, I was able to buy a couple of used Hewes ss reels for 135 at a reasonable price on an auction site; now I just need to find a tank and some clips.

If you use Jobo reels, here are a couple of tips for 120 film: clip the leading corners of the film before you start (maybe 1/4" diagonally). It makes loading the film much easier. Also, put a little pressure on the film with your thumb or index finger on the side that you rotate to advance the film. The Jobo reels don't have the little ball bearings that the Paterson reels use to grab the film.

runswithsizzers · Jan 25, 2019

CropDusterMan said:
I'm a huge fan of Jobo 1520 tanks. 2 rolls of 35 or 1 roll of 120. B&H USA sells them or avail on Ebay.
View attachment 215784

If I understand correctly, any reels that are to used with Jobo tanks must be especially designed for Jobo, right? (I am pretty sure the Hewes reels I just bought are not the "Jobo" versions.)

What is it about the Jobo tanks that makes them worth the extra cost and effort to find compatible reels? Not trying to be argumentative; I am just trying to learn from more experienced users.

Pieter12 · Jan 25, 2019

Compare to Paterson tanks, I find the Jobo tank lids are easier to remove and replace for filling and emptying, making changing solutions quicker. On the other hand the sealing ring that hold the lid in place can sometimes be tricky to close correctly after you've loaded the reel in the tank.

CropDusterMan · Jan 25, 2019

runswithsizzers said:
If I understand correctly, any reels that are to used with Jobo tanks must be especially designed for Jobo, right? (I am pretty sure the Hewes reels I just bought are not the "Jobo" versions.)

What is it about the Jobo tanks that makes them worth the extra cost and effort to find compatible reels? Not trying to be argumentative; I am just trying to learn from more experienced users.

No, their reels are specific to their tanks. The lid system, as Pieter12 mentions above, is IMO,a better seal and offers a more positive
grip for inversion processing. I have used Paterson (not a fan of their tank and lid design), Hewes St. Steel tanks and reels etc, and I prefer the Jobo. Clean reels are the key to better loading I've found...fotoflo can leave a residue I think,
so I clean mine well after use.

Pieter12 · Jan 25, 2019

CropDusterMan said:
No, their reels are specific to their tanks. The lid system, as Pieter12 mentions above, is IMO,a better seal and offers a more positive
grip for inversion processing. I have used Paterson (not a fan of their tank and lid design), Hewes St. Steel tanks and reels etc, and I prefer the Jobo. Clean reels are the key to better loading I've found...fotoflo can leave a residue I think,
so I clean mine well after use.

Beware photoflo residue! I have had problems with developer foaming from the slightest amount left on the reel. I now wash the empty reel in the tank as I would for film after I'm done.

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