Talk me out of buying an SWC

Grim Tuesday · Apr 3, 2021

Alright, I decided to roll the dice on it and get the black SWC/M at KEH that was in "ugly" condition for $1250 and comes with a finder. I've been eyeing it for at least ten days. As documented in other threads, I don't trust KEH ugly condition, but I have also been lucky with it about half the time. Fingers crossed that just the finder or the body is ugly and not the lens, but we shall see. That's where the dice roll comes in: if it's in good shape I get an SWC. If it needs to be returned, then maybe the groundhog sees his shadow and it's six more years of no SWC. Fingers crossed.

The arguments against were good, by the way. Wide angle may not be my FoV. I will consider this a fun challenge to see what I can do with it. I'll give it at least ten rolls and then reconsider - maybe I haven't given myself enough of a chance to fall in love with wide? If the lens is in good shape I am sure I could make money on the resale if I had to re-sell it. To everyone who said I was just bored, you are totally correct. Hopefully this will be the fun kick I need to go out and take more pictures after a year of working from home and letting each day blend into the next. Plus, my birthday is coming up

ruilourosa · Apr 3, 2021

Mir 45 is the opposite of 38 biogon...
Retrofocus, high distortion, flare, smeared corners...

I like it! But swc is another thing...

ic-racer · Apr 3, 2021

I saw at least one youtube video with two photographers having fun with their 40mm SLR and 38mm Biogon lenses. There is no right answer as to which is best. The real fanatics might have both!

I use an SLR with 40mm lens. I started with the monster 40mm Distagon in the 1980s (it is the largest lens I own) and now also have the 40mm Super Angulon (which is the smallest lens in its SLR system).

ruilourosa · Apr 3, 2021

Rollei?

NB23 · Apr 3, 2021

Amazing tool, extremely hard to master.

Funny, I was using mine 2 days ago.

Dan Daniel · Apr 3, 2021

Look at what Lee Freidlander has been doing with his SWC in the last decade or so. For coming from 35mm rangefinder with what appears to be a 35mm or 50mm lens as his standard, he done pretty good.

https://whitney.org/exhibitions/lee-friedlander
https://www.dodho.com/lee-friedlander-western-landscapes/

ic-racer · Apr 3, 2021

ruilourosa said:
Rollei?

Do they offer the little Super Angulon 40mm for the Hasselblad? On the Rollei Hy6 the 40mm f3.5 is fast, light and compact even with motor drive, auto exposure, matrix metering, focus assist, TTL flash, etc.

Sirius Glass · Apr 3, 2021

Lachlan Young said:
The lens is extraordinary in terms of MTF performance and lack of distortion. But I'm not convinced it visually works well on 6x6 - it seems almost a better fit with something like the A16 back (metaphysically speaking), or possibly the formats Alpa came up with (44x66mm and 36x72mm I recall).

My photographs with it would dispute your notions. Also here is a hot flash: It was designed for 6x6.

Sirius Glass · Apr 3, 2021

Old Gregg said:
I think Lachlan's point is that the 38mm FOV is challenging compositionally with the square. @Grim Tuesday congratulations, I have been staring at that KEH listing for weeks myself. Thank you for taking care of this temptation for me.

The SWC is rectilinearly correct unlike the 40mm lens. As one uses the lens, one sees the advantages of the SWC which one cannot learn from MTF curves and looking at listings. You need to go back an reconsider you decision.

mgb74 · Apr 3, 2021

I had an itch for the SWC. So I bought a 40mm for my ETRS to see how much I'd use it. Jury is still out.

Pieter12 · Apr 3, 2021

I have a 40mm for my Rolleiflex SLR and an SWC. The lens on the SWC is just sharper and more contrasty. It is nice to be able to compose and focus with an SLR, but using the external viewfinder and estimating focus is no big deal, especially with the generous depth of the SWC. And it is lighter and smaller to carry. You just have to commit to the single lens, although sometimes I will carry a MF rangefinder in the bag with the SWC for a bit of versatility.

Sirius Glass · Apr 3, 2021

Pieter12 said:
I have a 40mm for my Rolleiflex SLR and an SWC. The lens on the SWC is just sharper and more contrasty. It is nice to be able to compose and focus with an SLR, but using the external viewfinder and estimating focus is no big deal, especially with the generous depth of the SWC. And it is lighter and smaller to carry. You just have to commit to the single lens, although sometimes I will carry a MF rangefinder in the bag with the SWC for a bit of versatility.

My SWC slides into my camera backpack next to the 50mm lens with the 80mm on the camera. Sometimes the 250mm or 100mm or both will come along for the ride. Because of the weight the 500mm does not get out as much unless there is a good opportunity to photograph wildlife.

Lachlan Young · Apr 3, 2021

Old Gregg said:
I think Lachlan's point is that the 38mm FOV is challenging compositionally with the square.

In the sense that it seems to cause the usual yawn-worthy ultra wide lens clichés to be even more pronounced because of its rectilinearity - it's best used on square format to inject strangeness, rather than for how wide it sees.

Sirius Glass · Apr 3, 2021

Lachlan Young said:
In the sense that it seems to cause the usual yawn-worthy ultra wide lens clichés to be even more pronounced because of its rectilinearity - it's best used on square format to inject strangeness, rather than for how wide it sees.

The SWC is rectilinear and that is very different than the run of the mill shorter than 20mm lenses [for 35mm cameras] of which most valuable feature is to distort everything for the Holy Grail of distortion. The SWC is a real camera, not a Lens Baby. If you want a real camera buy and use the SWC, otherwise save your money and buy a Lens Baby.

Arthurwg · Apr 3, 2021

Lachlan Young said:
In the sense that it seems to cause the usual yawn-worthy ultra wide lens clichés to be even more pronounced because of its rectilinearity - it's best used on square format to inject strangeness, rather than for how wide it sees.

Yes, you can "inject strangeness" with the SWC. But I don't think it's a function of the lens but rather the photographer. Nothing strange about Friedlander's pictures as far as I can see. Or mine with that lens.

SrMi · Apr 4, 2021

How do you focus with SWC? Is a tool like Leica FOKOS helpful?

Sirius Glass · Apr 4, 2021

SrMi said:
How do you focus with SWC? Is a tool like Leica FOKOS helpful?

One estimates the distance, but the depth of field is so great that if one sets the infinity symbol on the the f/number virtually everything is in focus. One can also attach a prism to the back and see directly through the lens. I have the equipment to do that, but I have never needed to do that.

wiltw · Apr 4, 2021

mgb74 said:
I had an itch for the SWC. So I bought a 40mm for my ETRS to see how much I'd use it. Jury is still out.

40mm FL on the ETRS is equivalent vertical FOV to using 22mm FL on 135 format frame.

Maris · Apr 4, 2021

There is a serious design flaw with the Hasselblad SWC. You can focus but you cannot compose a picture accurately. Why?

Because the lens cuts off the view of the foreground as seen through the viewfinder. And because the lens is so wide there is a lot of foreground and because the lens is so sharp there is a lot of detail in that foreground. When I used a SWC for deep-focus front to back landscape pictures I used it upside down. The un-see-able part of the view is then up in the sky where there is less chance of a critical framing error.

Yes, there is a ground-glass back for the SWC that solves any focussing, framing, and composition errors but it is a cumbersome answer to a problem a SLR doesn't have.

SrMi · Apr 4, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
One estimates the distance, but the depth of field is so great that if one sets the infinity symbol on the the f/number virtually everything is in focus. One can also attach a prism to the back and see directly through the lens. I have the equipment to do that, but I have never needed to do that.

Thanks! I am considering getting an SWC. I assume that attachable prism would be most useful for precise framing, but it does look cumbersome, especially with such an agile tool as SWC.

ruilourosa · Apr 4, 2021

Etrsi 40mm or Mamiya 645 35mm, albeit decent lenses do not resemble swc images, even with a 645 back...
Sq ps 40mm is rather good... But no match...
Gs pg 50mm is very good also... But no no...
Pentax 67 45mm is so so..
Mamiya 7 43 is very good, a very close contender with rangefinder... A bit clinical...
Mamiya press 50mm is a very interesting lens... Single coated high resolution lens.
Cf and cfi also very good but ... Just a tiny bit less than swc, different image rendition...
But...

Swc is swc... And is my favourite sw ...
I had a lot of lenses before as you can see... Always trying not to spend the cash...

I kept some bronicas and mamiyas though...

Framing and focus... You just have to get used to it...

Slixtiesix · Apr 5, 2021

Buy it and do not forget the ground glass adaptor and RMFX finder for perfect framing.

Sirius Glass · Apr 5, 2021

Maris said:
There is a serious design flaw with the Hasselblad SWC. You can focus but you cannot compose a picture accurately. Why?

Because the lens cuts off the view of the foreground as seen through the viewfinder. And because the lens is so wide there is a lot of foreground and because the lens is so sharp there is a lot of detail in that foreground. When I used a SWC for deep-focus front to back landscape pictures I used it upside down. The un-see-able part of the view is then up in the sky where there is less chance of a critical framing error.

Yes, there is a ground-glass back for the SWC that solves any focussing, framing, and composition errors but it is a cumbersome answer to a problem a SLR doesn't have.

Some on on Photrio suggests turning the camera upside down if the bottom of the frame is critical. I have just moved it up-down-right-left a little in the past, but I will turn it over the next time I need to.

There us a similar problem with the M series Leicas with the lens hood getting the way for wider lenses.

Sirius Glass · Apr 5, 2021

Slixtiesix said:
Buy it and do not forget the ground glass adaptor and RMFX finder for perfect framing.

I have it but I have never used it to take a photograph, however it is fun to walk around inside a building and going through doorways looking through it.

Pieter12 · Apr 5, 2021

Sirius Glass said:
Some on on Photrio suggests turning the camera upside down if the bottom of the frame is critical. I have just moved it up-down-right-left a little in the past, but I will turn it over the next time I need to.

There us a similar problem with the M series Leicas with the lens hood getting the way for wider lenses.

The field of view is so wide that it is no hardship to frame a little loose and crop when you print. The lens is sharp enough that a bit of cropping doesn't really affect the final print quality.

Talk me out of buying an SWC

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