T-Max doesn't have silver?

winger · Sep 13, 2007

Since I'm in PA, I figured I'd go to a nearby camera club meeting to try and meet some people (since I only know about 4 people here). The guy sitting behind me, once he found out I shoot film, asked me what I liked to use. When I said I was currently using T-Max 100, he said, "Do you know what the difference is between that and TriX? TriX has less latitude and has silver, while TMax has more latitude and no silver, just dye." I was tempted to ask him how you develop it then, since all developers are intended to convert the silver grains. I desisted.

Monophoto · Sep 13, 2007

Just think - in November, that guy gets to vote.

Scary, isn't it?

Roger Hicks · Sep 13, 2007

Wheeee!

Perhaps there should be an annual prize for how far you can get from the truth without being beaten to a pulp by those who know what they are talking about.

Of course we'd need to exclude politicians and most of the PR trade.

Ray Heath · Sep 13, 2007

winger said:
Since I'm in PA, I figured I'd go to a nearby camera club meeting to try and meet some people (since I only know about 4 people here). The guy sitting behind me, once he found out I shoot film, asked me what I liked to use. When I said I was currently using T-Max 100, he said, "Do you know what the difference is between that and TriX? TriX has less latitude and has silver, while TMax has more latitude and no silver, just dye." I was tempted to ask him how you develop it then, since all developers are intended to convert the silver grains. I desisted.

g'day winger

why desist?

fhovie · Sep 13, 2007

Well - I guess a lot of things are becoming legacy knowledge. A lot of people are content with a world that operates by magic. Like how do things really work anyway? Gas goes in the car - key goes in the ignition - all the rest is magic. Film - digital cards - how to operate software or hardware - everything else is magic. So there are a always a few left that either have gray hair or have an insatiable curiosity that loves google and keeps us up to speed on how things work. For everything else there is Mastercard.

Ray Heath · Sep 13, 2007

g'day all

fhovie, an interesting observation on "legacy knowledge"

in this case it's more like mis-information and the illogical being accepted without thought

i don't believe that Google helps, there is too much crap out there

Roger Hicks · Sep 13, 2007

Ray Heath said:
i don't believe that Google helps, there is too much crap out there

Indeed: is Google cause -- or effect?

Likewise Wikipedia.

Sirius Glass · Sep 13, 2007

May be T-Max does not have silver when it is in Pennsylvania. :confused::confused:

Steve

gainer · Sep 13, 2007

I suppose the poor guy was thinking of that C-41 processed monochrome film, but even it starts out with silver in it.

Keith Cocker · Sep 13, 2007

Monophoto said:
Just think - in November, that guy gets to vote.

Scary, isn't it?

Both of them.

copake_ham · Sep 13, 2007

Then again, perhaps the OP could have politely disagreed and suggest that the person join APUG and pose the question here.

I wonder if then folks would have fallen over themselves to help out a "newbie" rather than tear down this poor fellow? In this day and age, does it benefit any of us to ridicule another film shooter because he is ignorant of certain facts? :confused:

eddym · Sep 13, 2007

copake_ham said:
Then again, perhaps the OP could have politely disagreed and suggest that the person join APUG and pose the question here.

I wonder if then folks would have fallen over themselves to help out a "newbie" rather than tear down this poor fellow? In this day and age, does it benefit any of us to ridicule another film shooter because he is ignorant of certain facts? :confused:

Where in her post did she state or even imply that the guy shot film?

And... he had no question to pose! He made a statement to her about TMax film, not a question.

Whiteymorange · Sep 13, 2007

Hi Bethe,
Another reason to move back to MA.

winger · Sep 13, 2007

Ahh, Whitey, the list sure grows, huh?

May be T-Max does not have silver when it is in Pennsylvania.

Since I only know of ONE shop around here that carries silver-based stuff, that may just be true.
I sorta gathered that he knew just enough to be dangerous and was trying to "instruct" someone he saw as new to photography (he's got at least 20 years on me and has obviously been in the group before). I also got the impression (possibly quite wrongly) that a few people thought I was quite new to photography and was jumping straight in with LF and no knowledge. I may have less knowledge than I need, but I do know a bit about choosing film and cameras and using them. He also said the usual, "you should stick with one film 'til you know it completely." right before telling me the difference between Tri-X and TMax. And I think he's a D shooter, but I'm not sure. And at least he did make sure the one LF shooter in the group came over and introduced himself.
Ah well, maybe it's best that some people not use film and the "dangerous" chemicals associated with it. I was also told that several people in the group switched formats because the chemicals were too difficult to mix. Hope they don't cook.
OK, maybe I'm not adjusting that well, yet. But he amused me.

copake_ham · Sep 13, 2007

winger said:
Ahh, Whitey, the list sure grows, huh?

Since I only know of ONE shop around here that carries silver-based stuff, that may just be true.
I sorta gathered that he knew just enough to be dangerous and was trying to "instruct" someone he saw as new to photography (he's got at least 20 years on me and has obviously been in the group before). I also got the impression (possibly quite wrongly) that a few people thought I was quite new to photography and was jumping straight in with LF and no knowledge. I may have less knowledge than I need, but I do know a bit about choosing film and cameras and using them. He also said the usual, "you should stick with one film 'til you know it completely." right before telling me the difference between Tri-X and TMax. And I think he's a D shooter, but I'm not sure. And at least he did make sure the one LF shooter in the group came over and introduced himself.
Ah well, maybe it's best that some people not use film and the "dangerous" chemicals associated with it. I was also told that several people in the group switched formats because the chemicals were too difficult to mix. Hope they don't cook.
OK, maybe I'm not adjusting that well, yet. But he amused me.

With all due respect, maybe it's a gender and/or age thing?

Why be coy about your knowledge and capabilities?

Seems to me all you accomplished of the situation was to avoid having made a new photog friend. Consider, if he's 20 years senior to you then even if he's a D-shooter now; he certainly wasn't always so.

But relax, I'm sure if you were to ever go back to that club he will steer far clear of you.

Oh, BTW, I have been shooting film for 30 years. I've never developed my own. I am a bit afraid of chemicals. Oh, and I am the cook in the family.

winger · Sep 13, 2007

With all due respect, maybe it's a gender and/or age thing?

Why be coy about your knowledge and capabilities?

Seems to me all you accomplished of the situation was to avoid having made a new photog friend. Consider, if he's 20 years senior to you then even if he's a D-shooter now; he certainly wasn't always so.

But relax, I'm sure if you were to ever go back to that club he will steer far clear of you.

Yes, I think it is an age/gender thing and I was a tad offended that he would assume I knew nothing as well as try to teach me with inaccurate info. He was the type to not let me talk, and to keep talking over me. I was coy about my knowledge partially because I didn't want to sit there and tell him he was wrong. I just nodded, smiled and turned back to the meeting, so I really doubt he'll steer clear of me for that. I've made other photog friends - he isn't my type.

dslater · Sep 13, 2007

You know from what he said, it sounds to me like he just made a simple mistake - when you said TMAX, I bet he thought you meant a C41 film. If he is older and a film user it is entirely possible he has never changed from using Tri-X and isn't really up on newer films.

Drew B. · Sep 13, 2007

Monophoto said:
Just think - in November, that guy gets to vote.

Scary, isn't it?

He voted the last two presidential elections...so why not now?

copake_ham · Sep 13, 2007

Drew B. said:
He voted the last two presidential elections...so why not now?

Hmm:

Pennsylvania voted in 2000 for Gore. And Bush in 2004.

So which election are you referring to? :confused:

David H. Bebbington · Sep 13, 2007

To be tediously factual for a moment:
Kodak's current T400 CN (ISO 400, C-41 process) film is a T-grain film even though it doesn't have the name T-Max on the box (this is apparently reserved for conventional-process film). The camera-club "idiot" was therefore not out quite as far as some people seem to think!

copake_ham · Sep 13, 2007

David H. Bebbington said:
To be tediously factual for a moment:
Kodak's current T400 CN (ISO 400, C-41 process) film is a T-grain film even though it doesn't have the name T-Max on the box (this is apparently reserved for conventional-process film). The camera-club "idiot" was therefore not out quite as far as some people seem to think!

But David, you fail to understand the nuance.

This 20 years to the senior of yon fair maiden was naught but a sexist swine trying to seduce the OP by inquiring about which film she was referring to. But being an addled-minded pig he was quickly 'dissed as it was proper to do.

And where upon, learning of this tale of nefariousness, our fair fellows of APUG (primarily the New England regiment) rose to defend the damsel's distress for having to had to encounter such a dastardly fellow.

For woe be tide, it is even possible that he might be a digital shooter. Although one can never, in fact, know of this except by the implication of his ignorance of the nuances of film.

Why then wouldst though really seek to defend this aged knave by pointing out such factual information as to the confusion many of us now have regarding such nomenclature as TCN and BCN and what C-41 processing might have to do (or actually, not do) with traditional B&W processing of Tri-X?

Oh, and yes, where dost T-Max fit in? Clearly it is the means whereby decaying old codgers are seeking to seduce fair maidens at camera club meetings. Perhaps it should be banned as a dangerous tool capable of enabling blackguards to seduce maidens via its "vapors".

:rolleyes:

JPD · Sep 14, 2007

Stever said:
May be T-Max does not have silver when it is in Pennsylvania. :confused::confused:

All the silver in Pennsylvania is used to make silver bullets. I think you will understand why when you read this quote from Wikipedia:

"Traditionally, the silver bullet is the only kind of bullet for firearms that is effective against a witch, vampire, monster, or a person living a charmed life."

Shawn Dougherty · Sep 14, 2007

Stever said:
May be T-Max does not have silver when it is in Pennsylvania. :confused::confused:

Steve

My T-Max seems to be working just fine despite being shot, processed and printed in Pennsylvania... :confused: Weird.

David H. Bebbington · Sep 14, 2007

copake_ham said:
Oh, and yes, where dost T-Max fit in? Clearly it is the means whereby decaying old codgers are seeking to seduce fair maidens at camera club meetings. Perhaps it should be banned as a dangerous tool capable of enabling blackguards to seduce maidens via its "vapors".

:rolleyes:

I am sure Bethe is well able to guard against advances by evil old photographers - to smooth things over at the camera club, though, perhaps at the next meeting she should make a point of admiring the size of this older person's filter mount.

Regards,

David

rjas · Sep 14, 2007

there was the time the manager of the (actually respectable) camera section of a dept. store insisted that his photographer friend's Leica M8 malfunctioned and Leica replaced it with an M9. He was adamant that I was mistaken about there not being an M9 .

T-Max doesn't have silver?

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