T Max 400 ULFl- What Are You Waiting For?

[Michael Kadillak]

I was in touch with John at J&C today and he informed me that the orders received to date for the T Max 400 ULF offering is lukewarm. What are you waiting for? In order to avail ourselves of the standard high priced Special Kodak Order and to get Kodak to consider cutting T Max 400 in ULF sizes, we needed to get their attention by purchasing an entire master roll. Encouraged by the interest expressed from the ULF community to put T Max 400 into the film holders of the ULF shooter, we invested a year of our time to secure terms and pricing that we have the opportunity to take advantage of as we speak. When we pre-notified the ULF/LF community of our success in climbing this mountain, we received tremendous interest in this project that encouraged us to set up the payment vehicle at:

http://www.jandcphoto.com/index.asp?PageAction=Custom&ID=24

I honestly felt that folks would be absolutely chomping at the bit at this opportunity and so far, that is not proved to be the case. . Come on fellow sheet film users, help us out here. We opted to act in the best interests of the entire ULF/LF community when we could have negotiated a deal for a handful of participants.

Considering the cost of a master roll of any film, the willing underwriter (J&C) needs our commitment in the form of actual film orders to offset a reasonable portion of the financial exposure to make this deal work. Without every interested person downloading the payment forms and committing to the largest commitment of this film possible, there is a real risk that this deal could not come to fruition.
Why? Unlike the Ilford offering that is being fronted by the manufacturer, J&C is stepping up BIG TIME to fund the purchase of the master roll but cannot (and should not) be asked to accept the entire financial exposure for this deal. Our participation as a group of sheet film users in the form of real orders is absolutely essential to offset a reasonable portion of the cost of this deal.

A tactical strategy in insuring that we have quality sheet film in the future is to take an offensive posture and convey to the film manufactuers that we are in fact a ready willing and stable market now and in the future. Given what we felt was the interest in T Max 400 that is exactly what we did with Kodak. To allow this offering to fail for a fundamental lack of participation would be absolutely devistating to the prospects of the future for ULF sheet film. It would make us as consumers completely reliant upon 50 year old film plants in Eastern and that does not set well with me one bit.

Help us help you and secure the prospects of participating in this marvelous art form for years to come - step up to the plate and send your order form to J&C.

Sincerely,

 

[John Z.]

I agree that the TMY 400 in larger formats is exciting news; I plan to order some in 5x7 and 11x14 formats. My only reservation, and I am sure for others has been that the large sheets are fairly pricey. The 11x14 sheets are more than twice the cost of Efke film on the same site. My recommendation is that J&C offer an incentive; if you pre-order TMY film now, you can also get 10% off you Efke or other J&C film at the same time. A classic sales incentive to get people to commit is a good idea.

 

[Jan Pietrzak]

MK, MM, KK, and J of J&C and all the rest

Back in the 60s' a great weekend was to take the Porsche and go out to Riverside Raceway, in CA (yes I said Riverside, I think a condo is sitting at turn 9) and have fun on the track doing club raceing. Gas was under a BUCK and tires where cheap, good tires. Today is another day. I can afford to buy 1 spark plug, or valve stem.

Big film is going to keep going up and up even the cheap stuff will too. Photographers are just going step up or scale back. I for one have made that commitment in ordering 500 sheets of 11x14 TriX (yes 11x14 TriX). Kerik you think the 14x17 was bad 11x is close to 50% more per sq/in than 8x10.

I for one will give it a go and hope that it works for me. If not I will have a great 11x14 to sell with lots of film holders and film.

John and Michael keep up the good work

Jan Pietrzak

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

You might put a reminder on on www.mamutphoto.com. The relevant thread is--

http://www.mamutphoto.com/forum/index.php?topic=179.0

 

[avandesande]

Michael, why not post a message with links to all the thread on apug, lfphoto, and M&P by people singing praises about TMAX 400?

 

[BarryWilkinson]

I agree that the TMY 400 in larger formats is exciting news; I plan to order some in 5x7 and 11x14 formats. My only reservation, and I am sure for others has been that the large sheets are fairly pricey. The 11x14 sheets are more than twice the cost of Efke film on the same site. My recommendation is that J&C offer an incentive; if you pre-order TMY film now, you can also get 10% off you Efke or other J&C film at the same time. A classic sales incentive to get people to commit is a good idea.

I think the effort put in by Michael and J&C (others?) to get this off the ground is enough of an incentive for ULF users. I suspect the price is driven by Kodak.

I shall be purchasing as soon as I know the international postage costs. Unfortunately the price will double by the time I get it here in the UK.

Barry

 

[waynecrider]

Many people just spent a ton of money on Christmas and maybe waiting a bit. From what I have seen, spending usually picks up by the end of January depending on the economy. In bad years it takes into Feb before things get rolling and in good years as early as the third week of Jan. I think you did a great thing by arranging this purchase, but I think the timing would have been better for the spring shooting season and or the month after tax returns when people have money coming back and are looking to spend it on photography. If their going to cut this stuff to 8x10, I may help if I can use it for enlarged negs?

 

[Jorge]

Michael, my problem is the commitment part. I am in the process of selling my house so at the moment I dont want a $900 dollar block on my CC that is not going to be used until a month or two, the January 31st deadline was just too close for me. If the possibility of getting an order still exists by late February/early March I will get some, if not then I guess I will just have to live with FP4+

 

[Michael Kadillak]

John Z:

One could argue rightfully that all ULF sheet film is expensive. The questions is what value are you gettign for your money? Compared to any of the Croatian films that are cheaper, T Max 400 is without question worth 2 or 3 times the lower price for the following reasons: 1) Produced my modern machinery with impeccable quality control 2) best reciprocity of any film currently produced 3) density produced in a linear relationship that will stop a .44 magnum 4) tear and scratch resistant and 5) will soup with beautiful results in every developer imaginable.

Croation film is produced with 50 year old equipment, scratches for no reason, reciprocity character that is just plain challenging to deal with and occasional quality control issues that John (to his credit) has been fabulous to take care of in the customer service department.

If you try it you will NEVER use another film - PERIOD.

Cheers!

 

[Kerik]

Michael,

I am definitely placing an order, but I'm waiting until closer to the deadline so I can see just how much I can afford to buy now. I agree, this film is probably the best for most ULF applications. But, no matter how you look at it, it's expensive. I've been paying ~$5 per sheet in 14x17 for FP4 from Photo Warehouse for many years, while I know that's no longer available, the jump to $12 per sheet for TMY is definitely "sticker shock".

 

[scootermm]

Michael... I see what you are getting at.
but like has been stated. its truly sticker shock. I mean in all honestly if all ULF film (and in particular 7x17) always cost that much for a box of 25 sheets I wouldnt have even delved into the format... I could not afford it. Nothing wrong with that. Perhaps in the future if the income situation changes that will change and Ill be able to afford to buy a nice wonderful film like TMAX in 7x17... I wish I had the funds to shoot exclusively in a wonderful film like TMAX and too support J&C in their great effort of offering this to people. They deserve the support.

 

[Rick Olson]

Hello Michael,

I have placed an order for 3 boxes of 5 x 7 TMY film. After reading the high praises from folks on APUG and others on Michael & Paula's AZO site when processed in both pyro, pyrocat and other developers, it sounds like the film of choice for me. I hope we can pull this deal off with Kodak and J & C.

Rick

 

[Michael Kadillak]

Thanks Kerik, Rick and others. Your cooperation is both welcomed and appreciated. Please contact other ULF shooters that you know and make sure that everyone that should know about this offering is aware of it. We need all the support that we can come up with.

John and I wish there was a methodology we could implement that would allow is to put this film into the hands of the ULF shooter cheaper but I will tell you straight up that if we were not successful in striking a special pricing arrangement to get us to where we are now, you could easily add 30% to the pre-sale price listed.

We need to find a way to continue shooting big cameras because as far as I am concerned, failure is not an option.

Keep your chin up and lets do all we can. At the end of the day we are in this together!

Cheers

 

[c6h6o3]

If you try it you will NEVER use another film - PERIOD.

Cheers!

Let's not get carried away. I think that TMY is the best film made, but I use other films too. For enlargements from rollfilm negatives, espcially protraits, I much prefer Efke R50. And I know some really fine photographers who have tried TMY and can't stand it.

I have no ULF camera. My only conceivable interest in this project would be some 5 x 7 film on the theory that I could have a 5 x 7 back fabricated at some point for my 8 x 10 camera. So to answer your question, that is what I am waiting for.

However, since opportunity knocks but once, I'll go ahead and order a box or two of 5 x 7 just to help out.

I think we're being shown in a very graphic fashion just why Kodak stopped cutting film in ULF sizes.

 

[George Losse]

Michael,

I'm sort of in the same holding process that Kerik is. I will be ordering the my film later, closer to the end of the month. I was going to send out the order this weekend, but really want to wait one more week before sending it in. I want to see just how much I can afford at this time.

I'm not going to complain about the price, EVERYTHING about ULF is expensive.

I will say that I don't like the system of printing out the form and mailing it in. One of the great things about ordering from J&C has been their online ordering.

 

[Mark Layne]

I will be ordering 3 boxes of 5x7 next week
Mark

 

[Petzi]

T-Max is great film, but I wonder why this effort comes now that Ilford have committed to making ULF film? I wonder if perhaps ULF shooters have now ordered Ilford and do not need Kodak film at this time?

 

[tom_micklin]

Michael,
I was just recovering from the Holiday spending spree.
I sent my check in Friday.
Thanks again for all your work on this,
Tom

 

[Michael Kadillak]

No question George that the online ordering form on the J&C website IS quick and easy. I even got an APUG discount online just before the holiday. However, John needed to ask that folks bear with the more cumbersome procedure because on the long shot if there was a need to provide folks a refund there would be a second transactional costs of several percent identical to the purchase fee. John is just being a prudent businessman and this is a very unique deal relative to his conventional business offerings. We hope that you can understand and bear with it. The result will be well worth it....

Cheers!

 

[Dave Parker]

I don't pay any extra fee's to refund a purchase when needed on a credit card, in fact my company refunds the charge fee's if I process a refund.

Dave

 

[jandc]

T-Max is great film, but I wonder why this effort comes now that Ilford have committed to making ULF film? I wonder if perhaps ULF shooters have now ordered Ilford and do not need Kodak film at this time?

The Kodak deal began about a year ago, well before Ilford or anyone else even considered that this would be a possibility from Ilford. The fact that the end result is occurring at the same time is coincidence.

To further extrapolate on Michaels explanation of why the paper order form. We are looking at tens of thousands of dollars of potential orders. When paid by credit card there is a cost for this and a similar cost when you do a refund. On the off chance that the deal did not pan out I didn't want to be thousands in the hole for credit card processing fees with no deal to pay for it.

 

[jandc]

I don't pay any extra fee's to refund a purchase when needed on a credit card, in fact my company refunds the charge fee's if I process a refund.

Dave

Dave,

I see you are using PayPal. On our offer we indicated that PayPal payments would be accepted becasue PayPal refunds everything. However, this does not apply to typical credit card processing companies.

John

 

[George Losse]

I didn't mean to stir up a fuss. I understood why the use of the printed order form before I mentioned it. I just know me, if i could have ordered online I most likely would have already.

The printed form is paperwork..... so my inner self comes out and has to slow that process down.

I really want to thank you guys for putting this together for the ULF community. We are at a point where we have never had so many film choices. Maybe that is also a part of the slow orders? I don't know about other but that is not the issue for me, I plan to support this effort just haven't sent in the form yet.

 

[Dave Parker]

Dave,

I see you are using PayPal. On our offer we indicated that PayPal payments would be accepted becasue PayPal refunds everything. However, this does not apply to typical credit card processing companies.

John

John,

I have a full blown merchant account as well, only about 40% of my orders come from my website, if I had only been using paypal, I would not have made the statement, I don't pay fee's on the refunds that occur on my merchant account either..

Dave

 

[Jimmy Peguet]

I sent my order via snail mail last week for 7x17 (BTW, John, may I add some boxes to this order directly by email ?). I hope it's easy to refund money to foreign - here french - consumers

I have the same problem than others : no time between Kodak and Ilford end of orders. The best would be to share the order between TMY and FP4, but it's so expensive ! At first, given the way the initiatives were presented, I was pretty sure that the purchase of TMY would function, while I was not certain that Ilford would cut film, but I decided to order both films by security and to try to help both. But now, I'm again wondering what to do It's not a good thing for the future that these two offers occurs at the same time because of the small market.

Jimmy