T-Max 100 (120) backordered?

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MattKing

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You sure sound like a Kodak employee.
No, but my father was a Kodak Canada employee for decades until retiring in the 1980s.
And I worked a fair while in the retail and photofinishing and studio areas of the industry when I was young.
I still have a lot of personal connections with people in the industry.
Nothing I have seen indicates anything other than the current players are struggling trying to solve this, and that they care deeply about both doing so and about being able to continue making and selling 120 film in the future.
 

cmacd123

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if you have the second edition of "making Kodak film" read the section on Backing paper. it is a fiendishly complicated product, and apparently there is something not happy with the T-max 100 that does not affect the other films that use basically the same PRINTED paper.
 

RattyMouse

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No, but my father was a Kodak Canada employee for decades until retiring in the 1980s.
And I worked a fair while in the retail and photofinishing and studio areas of the industry when I was young.
I still have a lot of personal connections with people in the industry.
Nothing I have seen indicates anything other than the current players are struggling trying to solve this, and that they care deeply about both doing so and about being able to continue making and selling 120 film in the future.
I see no evidence that Fujifilm is struggling with any paper issues at all. Kodak should partner with Fuji and get this problem solved.
 

RattyMouse

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if you have the second edition of "making Kodak film" read the section on Backing paper. it is a fiendishly complicated product, and apparently there is something not happy with the T-max 100 that does not affect the other films that use basically the same PRINTED paper.
Just posted recently in the b& w forum is a report from someone who has found a paper problem on negatives from a recent roll of TMAX 400 with the "improved" paper. TMAX 400 is not out of the woods yet.
 

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120 film on back order?

sounds like it is time to buy a LF camera and some sheet film, no backing paper !
 

RattyMouse

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I thought it was bold of Kodak to launch a "T-Max Party" on social media with one of their key products MIA. They're now reporting that T-Max 100 in 120 will be available mid-year. Hopefully they mean this year.
Source: https://www.facebook.com/kodakprofessional/posts/1534302116588123

Wow. This can't be related to the paper issue. TMAX 400 has had this problem just as much, if not more, than TMAX 100. I wonder what caused this film to disappear for a year.
 

laser

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if you have the second edition of "making Kodak film" read the section on Backing paper. it is a fiendishly complicated product, and apparently there is something not happy with the T-max 100 that does not affect the other films that use basically the same PRINTED paper.
Thanks for mentioning "Making KODAK Film" 2nd edition. Film is a very good detector. It is easy to take backing paper for granted until it degrades your photographs.
 

NB23

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They tried to cheap out on paper and R&D, and they lost a lot of sales and customers.

Pathetic, really.
 

NB23

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It's so blatantly obvious.
 

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if you have the second edition of "making Kodak film" read the section on Backing paper. it is a fiendishly complicated product, and apparently there is something not happy with the T-max 100 that does not affect the other films that use basically the same PRINTED paper.

it seems to be causing problems with other films in the kodak stable as well.
a few weeks ago (?) someone shoot color negative film ( portra ? ) was having issues..
 

NB23

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What is? The pathetic nature of posting allegations without evidence?

The evidence is all there. I can point them all to you but you would have to pay me for my time.

Here's a freebie that might tickle your mind: if Foma can do it, why can't Kodak?

At this point they lost me and a lot of other customers. I got tired of being insulted.
No formal news? No formal infos? No formal explanations? Just a f**k*ff is all I got, really.

Thanks but no thanks.
 
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The evidence is all there. I can point them all to you but you would have to pay me for my time...
Not how it works. He/she who makes allegations has the burden of providing evidence they're valid.
...if Foma can do it, why can't Kodak?...
Excellent, hold up Foma as an exemplar of quality. The APUG archive is replete with complaints about defective Foma product.
...At this point they lost me and a lot of other customers. I got tired of being insulted.
No formal news? No formal infos? No formal explanations? Just a f**k*ff is all I got, really...
Corporations don't owe anybody any information about their internal matters. They also need to trade off the trouble a customer 'costs' versus the benefit of keeping that customer. If you exhibited the same attitude in your communications with Kodak that you do in this thread, I wouldn't be surprised that you were told (to put it politely) to stop bothering them. Nor would I consider such a response unjustified.
 

Wallendo

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I doubt that Kodak "went cheap". The paper that produced issues with Kodak film looks to be a lot more expensive than Foma's paper. I'm not an expert on backing paper, but the Kodak product looks much more modern.
Maybe Kodak made a change to save a few pennies, maybe there where environment issues with their previous products. Obviously their pre-market testing was not able to detect the issue. Even now, Kodak's official position is that the defect only affects certain rolls which may have been improperly stored.

I don't know the economies of scale involved, but I wish Kodak would allow the option of purchasing films with no markings on the backing paper.
 
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In combination of limited testing, and modern economics of extracting profits, changes are made to organizations and products all the time. It happens left and right.
I work for a company where substitutions have to be made on a continuous basis, because suppliers of parts run out of raw materials or components, raise their prices, and/or can't deliver; yet demand for the product continues, and 'the show must go on'.
In a market as specialized as backing paper for 120 film, I would be willing to bet that keeping a steady supply is a challenging enterprise. There may be one or two suppliers in the world that can do this, and I'm sure they have suppliers too, providing things like ink, coloring agents, raw paper material, and the like, and they will in turn experience supply issues, ad nauseum.
It may also be that Kodak Alaris simply doesn't have enough resources to deal with situations like these as effectively as Eastman Kodak would have in the past.
Finally, one might argue that it would be a good idea to develop a Plan B for these kinds of situations, in a system of redundancy have a 'next best alternative' to a current working solution, so that when the bad news happens there is sustainable recourse.
 
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The backing paper is sourced and the film products made by Eastman Kodak. Kodak Alaris is but a marketer/distributor of film.

But it is the combination of backing paper and Kodak film that constitutes a problem to us customers. They are responsible for assembly at some stage, and whoever provides the backing paper can have issues with raw materials and supply. Whatever happened, it's not being sorted out very effectively, not is it appearing to be efficient.
 
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The backing paper is sourced and the film products made by Eastman Kodak. Kodak Alaris is but a marketer/distributor of film.
But it is the combination of backing paper and Kodak film that constitutes a problem to us customers. They are responsible for assembly at some stage, and whoever provides the backing paper can have issues with raw materials and supply. Whatever happened, it's not being sorted out very effectively, not is it appearing to be efficient.
You seem to be missing that there are two different 'Kodaks' involved. The "they" in your post only refers to Eastman Kodak. Kodak Alaris, a completely different company, doesn't assemble film products at any stage.
 
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You seem to be missing that there are two different 'Kodaks' involved. The "they" in your post only refers to Eastman Kodak. Kodak Alaris, a completely different company, doesn't assemble film products at any stage.

I am missing nothing. I know about Alaris and Eastman. Alaris is responsible.
 

RattyMouse

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Losing TMAX100 to me shows that Kodak is in over their head on this issue. It is just amazing that one of their premier products was off the market for up to one year. Imagine how bad that affected their bottom line.
 

MattKing

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I am missing nothing. I know about Alaris and Eastman. Alaris is responsible.
Kodak Alaris is responsible to the distributors, retailers and end-user customers.
And Eastman Kodak is responsible to Kodak Alaris.
As problems arise after the film is out in the world, they both need to cooperate in the task of identifying the cause and solutions for those problems.
 

cmacd123

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Eastman Kodak is the manufacturer. They ship retail packed products to the warehouse that alaris says to ship to. Alaris then sells and ships it to dealers and customers.

The problem appears to be subtle, and My guess is that EK has made up test samples and then aged them in an environmental chamber to see if they have licked the problem before they ship another batch that might not work. This process may take several passes before they figure out where the problem is.
 
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The problem appears to be subtle, and My guess is that EK has made up test samples and then aged them in an environmental chamber to see if they have licked the problem before they ship another batch that might not work. This process may take several passes before they figure out where the problem is.

This is why I suggested earlier that it's a good idea to have a contingency plan when stuff like this happens. But I don't know how possible that is.
 
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