Synchro-Compur No.2 shutter - erratic blades

  • A
  • Thread starter Deleted member 88956
  • Start date

3 Columns

A
3 Columns

  • 6
  • 6
  • 107
Couples

A
Couples

  • 4
  • 0
  • 90
Exhibition Card

A
Exhibition Card

  • 6
  • 4
  • 131
Flying Lady

A
Flying Lady

  • 7
  • 2
  • 142

Recent Classifieds

Forum statistics

Threads
199,053
Messages
2,785,440
Members
99,791
Latest member
nsoll
Recent bookmarks
1

Deleted member 88956

Have an LF lens with Synchro-Compur shutter. While shutter sounds fine, blades open erratically, almost every other try, but this is not 100% consistent. This happens on every speed setting: T, B, through to 1/400.

Looks to me blades need cleaning as mechanism itself sounds pretty close to normal.

Any ideas? Please let's skip "send it for CLA".
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 88956

Looks like I have a "cause", but have not yet opened it. When time setting is IN the notch for whichever, blades act up erratically, but if I move setting ring just off a notch a small bit, blades seem to operate fine. Of course this does not leave confidence and needs to be fixed. So a follow up question would be: is there an adjustment to how notches communicate with shutter mechanism. I'm looking at a very small shift to get the ring in a notch for it to do what it does just off of it.
 

BrianShaw

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
16,543
Location
La-la-land
Format
Multi Format
That’s more of a symptom than a cause. You can easily remove the speed cam ring, clean it up, re-grease, and reassemble with a hope for an improvement. But, I wouldn’t hold my breath in hopes that will fix much or fix for long. Honestly, that shutter needs a ...
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 88956

That’s more of a symptom than a cause. You can easily remove the speed cam ring, clean it up, re-grease, and reassemble with a hope for an improvement. But, I wouldn’t hold my breath in hopes that will fix much or fix for long. Honestly, that shutter needs a ...
Symptom or cause on this case makes only semantical difference. Notch is off alignment causing blades not engaging. So this is not about lubrication, shutter is working perfectly, There is zero hesitation in how it reacts to release. I'm basically just asking if anyone knows about any particular part of Synchro-Compur's design that can shift notch alignment, before I open it. I don't send stuff over for basic shutter overhaul unless I know I might have parts issues.
 

BrianShaw

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
16,543
Location
La-la-land
Format
Multi Format
Obviously, you just want to believe whatever you believe despite complete ignorance (lack of knowledge). So be it. Clearly, the shutter is NOT operating “Perfectly”.

No, there isn’t a way to “shift the notch”. Well... short of peening and filing.

This is a classic case where a proper cleaning and lubrication is needed to restore proper functionality. I suppose you could just fiddle the shutter speed ring each time...

If you do open it and clean it up, please research the Compur lubrication plan. Those shutters almost demand proper lubrication. When done right they are a really sweet shutter.
 
Last edited:
OP
OP

Deleted member 88956

Obviously, you just want to believe whatever you believe despite complete ignorance (lack of knowledge). So be it. Clearly, the shutter is NOT operating “Perfectly”.

No, there isn’t a way to “shift the notch”. Well... short of peening and filing.

This is a classic case where a proper cleaning and lubrication is needed to restore proper functionality. I suppose you could just fiddle the shutter speed ring each time...

If you do open it and clean it up, please research the Compur lubrication plan. Those shutters almost demand proper lubrication. When done right they are a really sweet shutter.
In other words you have no idea what I am asking about since you cannot answer the simple question asked. Yet you start getting personal. I can spell ignorance for you, but is it worth it?
 

BrianShaw

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
16,543
Location
La-la-land
Format
Multi Format
I gave you an answer to your question.

“No, there isn’t a way to “shift the notch”. Well... short of peening and filing.”

It’s just not the answer you want to hear. Sorry. Be grateful.
 

eli griggs

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
3,855
Location
NC
Format
Multi Format
Google "service repair manual Compur shutter" and a link to a side that promotes self taught camera repair will be in the first few choices.

Go there and again type in "Compur shutter", if if the manual is no offered up on the opening page, and download the PDF of the Zeiss Compur shutter book.

It's very clearly illustrated and you will find what your looking for, so far as exploded drawings are concerned.

It helps to already know the size of your shutter, '0, 00, etc and type, 'VM', 'VXM', etc. as the manual has these two factors in the upper right corner on each page.

By the way, it is in both German AND English, with the German language above the English.

The manual also notes some makers name or data , but don't no count on it.

Good Luck and Godspeed.
 

eli griggs

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
3,855
Location
NC
Format
Multi Format
I should also have mention, you'll need Precision Slotted (-) Screwdrivers, in 1.5mm, 2mm, 2.5mm, and 3mm.,

PBSwiss, Wiha, Kronos, and several sets of jewelers screwdrivers, both dedicated and with adapter bits,, are too thick as they come from the makers, (the PBSwiss I mention has the 'comfort handle, so their smaller traditional jewelers set MAY work, IDNK, but hope to find out for myself in the future), BUT the, Wera screwdrivers are perfect fits out of the packaging.

You can find these on Amazon, eBay, KC Tools, and I do no believe you should pay more than $5 of any of them, especially if you or a friend have PRIME, so shop around on-line for the best price, including free shipping.

The Wera drivers, except the 1.5mm, have extra long handles, and allow you to actually see what's happening beneath your hand, which is much better than the tiny 12mm or even 25,4 shafts of smaller jewelers tools, so do no think your looking at the wrong ones if you go looking; I'll post a pic in awhile.

You will also need a pair of good Tweezers, but in the $11 range you'll find what you'll need, with a C.H.P. 7 SA, (curved, fine point) and the same brand in the (very fine point) 3 SA.

Be careful to no over squeeze on a screw, etc, as these are generally well made, but common sense handling is needed to avoid malforming those tips.

I should have noted this on the previous post, but there is a small ball bearing in these shutters, (or More?) that you'll need to take extra caution when removing and putting aside.

I like the 1.5 (-) screwdriver for this, with my finger on top of the ball, when removing; have a secure container ready to put this in, right away, with a closed top.

If you do no have them, I suggest you get some PEC Pads, and, beyond cleaning glass, cut one og them in small squares, about 1cm/10mm, and if there is oil on your blades, take the curved tweezers, grasp all four (4) corners in the tip and wet with alcohol, then gently, brush aside the oil spots to remove any oil, including fingerprints.

There are other things you may want to add to your CLA kit, but for now, Isopropyl alcohol,97 - 99%, Hydrogen Peroxide, 3% and Finger nail remover (acetone) are your best tools, as is Naphtha, the Iso will clean and remove oils and, only when needed a tiny drop of remover on a reluctant screw/thread, will usually free it; DO NO FORCE ANY THREAD, like you might with a car or home appliance.

The Hydrogen Peroxide is for stubborn lens cleaning, particularly mold and haze, so have a soaking lid ready if you're going to do that, and the PEC Pads is the ONLY thing you should use for wiping/touching glass, Period.

I hope this will get you started or clear-up some questions you may have.

Be Well, Be Happy.
 
Last edited:

Kino

Subscriber
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
7,771
Location
Orange, Virginia
Format
Multi Format
Have an LF lens with Synchro-Compur shutter. While shutter sounds fine, blades open erratically, almost every other try, but this is not 100% consistent. This happens on every speed setting: T, B, through to 1/400.

Looks to me blades need cleaning as mechanism itself sounds pretty close to normal.

Any ideas? Please let's skip "send it for CLA".

The shutter needs to be cleaned at a minimum. You can do it or send it off.

Inspiration:

 

shutterfinger

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
5,020
Location
San Jose, Ca.
Format
4x5 Format
The Synchro Compur is not a shutter for someone not familiar with servicing shutters.
https://learncamerarepair.com/product.php?product=7&category=2&secondary=20 is the service manual you want. Many shutters/cameras/lens combinations are not listed in the tables but the shutter diagrams are correct for them.
The shutter underwent design changes throughout its production so yours may be different from the manual even if it is listed as the diagram for your lens.

The problem you are experiencing is the mechanism is not engaging the blade controller when at the notched speed point. This part is gummed up with bad grease, excessive wear, or deformed.
Many #2 shutters are a 00 shutter scaled up to the different size. The CN-1110-000 is a common workhorse.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 88956

The shutter needs to be cleaned at a minimum. You can do it or send it off.

Inspiration:


Well, no cleaning required. What happened, I don't know exactly, but had the top rings off, figured no time to play any deeper for now, put it back together and everything works perfectly and on the notch. So, was it taken apart before and something didn't line up as it should, or something else happened? I don't think I'll ever know. Have ever had a shutter that did what this was doing, but there is always first time.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 88956

The Synchro Compur is not a shutter for someone not familiar with servicing shutters.
https://learncamerarepair.com/product.php?product=7&category=2&secondary=20 is the service manual you want. Many shutters/cameras/lens combinations are not listed in the tables but the shutter diagrams are correct for them.
The shutter underwent design changes throughout its production so yours may be different from the manual even if it is listed as the diagram for your lens.

The problem you are experiencing is the mechanism is not engaging the blade controller when at the notched speed point. This part is gummed up with bad grease, excessive wear, or deformed.
Many #2 shutters are a 00 shutter scaled up to the different size. The CN-1110-000 is a common workhorse.
Thanks, this is very helpful even if for next time.

I am too happy with how it operates now to go in again. I am a little strapped with time. Not saying it does not or could not use a good overhaul as it is about 40+ years old, and I'll do it when time is available on hand.
 

BrianShaw

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
16,543
Location
La-la-land
Format
Multi Format
So, was it taken apart before and something didn't line up as it should, or something else happened? I don't think I'll ever know.
You’re right... you’ll never know and I agree with you that it is likely. Highly likely. It’s easy for the speed ring to pinch levers if one doesn’t check that the levers are free. The greasing I mentioned earlier wasn’t to fix the problem but to ensure that the speed ring operates smooth. It’s nice but not totally essential.
 
Last edited:

shutterfinger

Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2013
Messages
5,020
Location
San Jose, Ca.
Format
4x5 Format
There are some levers that look like pins that go through the speed ring once seated and will slide in a slot on the underside of the speed ring if not correctly seated. The cover not being tightened properly can let the pin slip out of slot.
Knowing which shutter you have will help if you have problems later on.
The CN-1307-000 is another workhorse that other shutters are based on.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 88956

There are some levers that look like pins that go through the speed ring once seated and will slide in a slot on the underside of the speed ring if not correctly seated. The cover not being tightened properly can let the pin slip out of slot.
Knowing which shutter you have will help if you have problems later on.
The CN-1307-000 is another workhorse that other shutters are based on.
Thanks again, all very helpful for future work. Maybe even on this one when I get there. I have diagrams of all these shutters, but this is not my hobby and rarely get in side them, but am not afraid to.
 

eli griggs

Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2005
Messages
3,855
Location
NC
Format
Multi Format
That manual also has the lubrication schedule as well as walk through instructions, etc, in case you change your mind about doing these yourself.

Cheers.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 88956

@eli griggs I have no problem getting inside with these things, I just meant to say it isn't often I get time.
 
Photrio.com contains affiliate links to products. We may receive a commission for purchases made through these links.
To read our full affiliate disclosure statement please click Here.

PHOTRIO PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Ilford ADOX Freestyle Photographic Stearman Press Weldon Color Lab Blue Moon Camera & Machine
Top Bottom