Survey - How many rolls of Kodachrome would you commit to shoot a year?

[Wayne]

Ken is not alone. Same with me, and ever time I go through a short period of mourning.

Do you dress in yellow for a week?

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

The drive-by crowd has awakened...

:crazy:

Ken

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ken, you missed the fact (perhaps) that there are fixed costs in scaling down that are going to affect the overall pricing situation. Also, the original Kodachrome films were all made at the 4" scale in KRL so those formulas exist.

I can say that as far as I can determine there are NO plans for reviving Kodachrome regardless of what you might think otherwise. As surmised earlier in one of these threads, the EPA would take a dim view of resurrecting some of these extinct chemicals. And that is just one reason among many. For example, the defect rate is much much higher at smaller scales.

PE

 

[BradS]

If I scaled down to a 4" machine, and coated 1000 ft of Kodacrhome, it would make about 400 rolls of either 20 or 36 exposure. That one run would take about 1 month of prep and testing and would have to pay for all of the people involved and the chemicals involved. So, 3000 ft would supply about 1200 rolls and do the job many times over for those who signed up. The 3000 ft would take 3x as long overall as it probably would need 3 coating sessions. If all went well, the actual coating time would be about 1 hour for each 1000 ft.

So, let some bright guy figure pay for a month for about 25 people, facilities and chemistry to come up with a film cost.

Now, for the process you need to make 3 couplers and CD6. This needs 4 bench chemists and would take about 1 month each plus chemicals and hazmat conditions and waste disposal. Figure that in.

Lets assume that the process machine exists, so what you need then is a group of lab techs to mix the chemistry and then run the machine while keeping it in control. Figure this into the process costs.

Try it sometime. Exercises like this were not uncommon as casual discussion at EK. In fact, we had to calculate the amount of emulsion per square foot all the time. It was one of our earliest exercises.

It aint cheap even on a small scale. You just make less.

PE

Thanks for this PE. I'm happy to have an engineering viewpoint added to the discussion. In my line of work we do this kinda thing all the time...we call it a "back of the envelope calculation". Often enough they happen over lunch or beers after hours (in which case they become napkin analysis).

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

...as I can determine there are NO plans for reviving Kodachrome regardless of what you might think otherwise.

No, no. These have always been nothing more than hypothetical discussions about Kodachrome. Just for fun. At least as far as I've been concerned.

That's why I've been so perplexed, and at times irritated, by the emotional, wild-eyed reactions of so many. I just don't choose to organize and present my thoughts that way. Nobody was trying to kill their pet puppies.

It was a hypothetical discussion about what might be possible some day (i.e., not "totally dead"), not about what is actually happening today. Or even in the near future.

Ken

 

[Wayne]

Maybe we need a forum for color things things that might be possible someday, sort of an optimist's version of Doom and Gloom. While I don't want to stifle people who want to discuss this sort of thing it had been dominating the color film,paper and chemistry forum and the process is currently not possible and not even likely.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

While I don't want to stifle people who want to discuss this sort of thing it had been dominating the color film,paper and chemistry forum and the process is currently not possible and not even likely.

It's not a zero-sum game. It only dominates if one can't discipline oneself not to look. And it's not someone else's fault when one can't.

Ken

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ken, here is what you said above:

"Thanks for this, PE. Very interesting. According to that earlier unconfirmed report, EK may actually be trying something like this at some level? Not necessarily for Kodachome, but for all of their film lines. And if they are or were, you may still have the contacts to know about it, right?"

I answered, as best I could.

PE

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

Apologies, Ron. I fixed my post above. I wasn't referring to you. I do appreciate the depth of your response.

Ken

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ken, the only place I know of someone or something not being completely dead, just almost dead was in the "Princess Bride" as Billy Crystal described the "dead prince".

Kodachrome is beyond that, and nothing will bring it back in our lifetimes.

Kodak is struggling for survival and is not about to play around with beating this dead horse. I've merely tried to show why, as best I could.

PE

 

[StoneNYC]

Ken, the only place I know of someone or something not being completely dead, just almost dead was in the "Princess Bride" as Billy Crystal described the "dead prince".

Kodachrome is beyond that, and nothing will bring it back in our lifetimes.

Kodak is struggling for survival and is not about to play around with beating this dead horse. I've merely tried to show why, as best I could.

PE

So it's "all dead"

Where's my loose change!

 

[Photo Engineer]

What am I, a plumber or a photo engineer? Its dead Stone.

 

[StoneNYC]

What am I, a plumber or a photo engineer? Its dead Stone.

Depends, do you build your own darkrooms? I think you might be both

Good so I can sell my 100 rolls of Kodachrome and buy... Some Velvia50 in 4x5 from japan

The only Kodachrome I would truly support is 4x5 sheet film production, now THAT would be something!

 

[Truzi]

Following the Princess Bride analogy... dare I say E6 is "mostly" dead? (Dons flame-resistant suit.)

Oh, and don't forget that one Star Trek episode where Bones apparently IS a brick-layer (I think it was The Devil in the Dark).

 

[rthollenbeck]

I must admit, I was sad the day Kodachrome died. There really was nothing like it.....especially the red. I'd like to answer that I would use it but that would probably be a lie.
Since I think we are all trying to do our part to keep traditional photography alive I would have to save my wishes for more obtainable things like:

1) Less complicated (yet as significant a media in my mind): Tec-Pan

2) Would be ez to produce but small market: Tmax 3200 or Delta 3200 in 8x10 sheets

Still there is so much to be grateful for!

 

[StoneNYC]

I must admit, I was sad the day Kodachrome died. There really was nothing like it.....especially the red. I'd like to answer that I would use it but that would probably be a lie.
Since I think we are all trying to do our part to keep traditional photography alive I would have to save my wishes for more obtainable things like:

1) Less complicated (yet as significant a media in my mind): Tec-Pan

2) Would be ez to produce but small market: Tmax 3200 or Delta 3200 in 8x10 sheets

Still there is so much to be grateful for!

Ilford says that HP5+ can be pushed to 3200, I didn't believe them, so I tried it in DD-X (of course) I was shocked! Dare I say this but I almost think HP5+ pushed to 3200 is better looking and finer grained than D3200 at 3200....

So... Try it... As D3200 will probably never appear in 8x10...

And kodak killed P3200 sadly, I like D3200 in 120 but find I like P3200 in 35mm... Who knows why...

 

[Athiril]

Ilford says that HP5+ can be pushed to 3200, I didn't believe them, so I tried it in DD-X (of course) I was shocked! Dare I say this but I almost think HP5+ pushed to 3200 is better looking and finer grained than D3200 at 3200....

So... Try it... As D3200 will probably never appear in 8x10...

And kodak killed P3200 sadly, I like D3200 in 120 but find I like P3200 in 35mm... Who knows why...

Pre-flash it just right and you will be shocked a whole lot more. I was shocked with Superia XTRA 800 @ 12800 when I added a pre-flash to it.

 

[aoresteen]

Wrong question. Size matters.

For me I would shoot less than 5 in 35mm. If 120 K64 was brought back I would shoot 60-100 rolls per year in 6x9 & 6x17. And I would get the 6x17 Fuji camera that I have always wanted!