SURVEY: Edwal 12 Users' Experience

Paul Howell · Jun 23, 2008

bowzart said:
Don,

Here's Gerald Koch's identification of gradol: "the hemisulfate of p-aminophenol C6H7NO.1/2H2SO4 ...molecular weight of 158.14. ... substitute p-aminophenol hydrochloride...use 0.9X of the amount called for. So, apparently, even having real Gradol isn't essential. Has anyone found corroboration of this identification for gradol?

I mixed a batch with p-aminophenol hydrochloride, did not seem to work, both grain and tones were off, and much softer than E12 which is not how my negatives from the 60s look.

Also, having mentioned Gerald Koch's observations and conclusions, I must ask whether anyone has experienced "the intense itching, the blisters the size of peas, the cross sensitization to all the color developing agents" that he encountered from ppd. I presume that if it had occured to anyone posting, we really could expect to have already heard about it.

Aside from staining my counter-sink, I use an old double vanity with a extra strip glued to the front to keep stuff from spilling onto the foor, no reactions. I wear gloves and saftey glasses when mixing chem. From I gather no more toxic than Pryo.

patrickjames · Jun 23, 2008

I just tried mixing up an Edwal 20 type in these non scientific amounts-

This is for 1.5 liters so keep that in mind...and this is not in the amounts given on the internet or in the FDC by Anchell.

pinch of metaborate to preserve the P-aminophenol while mixing
10g P-aminophenol
135g SS
10g Boric Acid
15g PPD
10g Borax
10g Glycin
20g of Sodium Hydroxide (needed to be added for the Glycin to go into solution. It went into solution at 140º F, but came back out when it cooled so I added the hydroxide.)

The Borax/boric acid combo hopefully will act as a buffer since I read somewhere the developer is sensitive to Ph. I haven't really tested it fully yet. It has been really hot here so the one roll I ran after seasoning it (with 3 rolls 35mm) was a little overdeveloped at 7min @ 25º F. (APX 100). So far it looks like it holds the film speed really well. I have a bunch of film to process from a recent trip, and I will post some of the results afterwards.

If anyone has any comments on the above formula let me know. I would love to hear opinions from others.

I haven't mixed up E-12 yet, but I have always had an affinity for p-aminophenol so I thought I would try E-20 first.

Patrick

Larry Bullis · Jun 23, 2008

What color is the image?

df cardwell · Jun 23, 2008

"I would love to hear opinions from others"

Lowe formulated Edwal 20 to pH 7.56.

patrickjames · Jun 23, 2008

df cardwell said:
"I would love to hear opinions from others"

Lowe formulated Edwal 20 to pH 7.56.

I have read this although I unfortunately have no way to test the pH, unless someone can suggest a cheap way to do it.

Patrick

Larry Bullis · Jun 23, 2008

df cardwell said:
I was much more imperious a few years ago.
For 2008, I'm going with quietly confident; it doesn't seem to matter much.
The birds still poop on me when I stick my head from under the darkcloth.

A seagull actually landed ON MY HEAD once when I was under the dark cloth up at Mt Rainier. Man, that was the weirdest thing ever. Bird feet moving around on the head feel extremely strange. Worse, what do you DO when that happens? I just waited, and eventually it left. But it interfered with my workflow.

As for the imperioriety, or whatever you'd call it, I approve heartily. I, myself, can still be a real jerk, but often it is too much work and generally much easier just to keep my mouth shut altogether. I think you can probably see, though, from these exchanges, that I still have a lot to learn in that regard. At least, probably due to my advancing age, people seldom kick me anymore when I'm out of line, but it is somewhat depressing when they just go away shaking their heads.

I think I'll just keep on my current course for now with these amazing power - steering fluids. Points well taken. However, I do have one superb developer that I use occasionally which robs me of a full three stops. Tri X at 50? The lost speed, however, appears again as an advantage in shadow detail that is simply shocking, breathtaking, beyond one's wildest dreams. But, I absolutely love full shadows. I can see that isn't as popular as it once was.

Thanks,

L

c6h6o3 · Jun 24, 2008

jim appleyard said:
OK, here's the homebrew version witht the correct stuff: (ignore last post)

Distilled water @ 125F 665cc
Metol 7g
Sodium sulfite 70 g
PPD 7g
Glycin 7g
Distilled water (cold) to make 1 liter

For more info:http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Harvey/harvey.html

Best of luck to anyone using a PPD dev.

Bluegrass states most emphatically that this is not the formula.

jim appleyard · Jun 24, 2008

Yes, I know. I was repeating the formula that everyone else says is 777.

df cardwell · Jun 24, 2008

Ouch.

Paul Howell · Jun 25, 2008

c6h6o3 said:
Bluegrass states most emphatically that this is not the formula.

Does anyone know if PF is reselling the Bluegrass kit or their own?

Larry Bullis · Jun 25, 2008

Has anyone tried, or does anyone have thoughts about the possibility of substitution of phenidone for the metol at the usual ratio of 1:10 in E12?

df cardwell · Jun 25, 2008

For Replenishment, here is Ed. Lowe's instruction. He was willing to use higher energy replenishers for other developers, and seemed content with this method for E-12
(Modern Developing Methods, Edwal Labs, Chicago, Ill. 1944)

df cardwell · Jun 25, 2008

bowzart said:
Has anyone tried, or does anyone have thoughts about the possibility of substitution of phenidone for the metol at the usual ratio of 1:10 in E12?

Depends on having Phenidone work with other agents which are additive.

(which is why Lowe used para-aminophenol, glycin, etc.)

Didn't Crawley used Phenidone with PPD ?

df cardwell · Jun 25, 2008

Paul Howell said:
Does anyone know if PF is reselling the Bluegrass kit or their own?

Ask them which formula it is, 777 or Germain's.
If they won't say, ask how much it weighs.

Larry Bullis · Jun 25, 2008

Thanks Don.

Paul Howell · Jun 25, 2008

df cardwell said:
For Replenishment, here is Ed. Lowe's instruction. He was willing to use higher energy replenishers for other developers, and seemed content with this method for E-12
(Modern Developing Methods, Edwal Labs, Chicago, Ill. 1944)

I wasnt able to open the attachement.

Ian Grant · Jun 25, 2008

No Crawley used PPD with Hydroquinone (FX-10) and Chlorquinol FX-9), but he uses Genochrome (May & Baker) - Diethyl Paraphenylenediamine Sulphate rather than the free base in both developers..

Ilford used Phenidone with Glycin in Ilfosol.

Ian

sun of sand · Jun 26, 2008

thanks for that E12 replenishment page

df cardwell · Jul 3, 2008

Paul Howell said:
I wasnt able to open the attachement.

The Flickr image is still good. Dunno what happened. here is the link:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3114/2610208799_ae0a127b30_o.jpg

df cardwell · Jul 3, 2008

At Photostock 2008, I made some pictures that confirmed that E-12 (with only 2.5 grams of glycin) can make a Normal negative on TMY.

I used 10' development, with agitation at every other minute.

Zones VIII and IX printed at the high end of their placement,
and gave me a choice between prints made at 8 seconds exposure with 1.5 minutes development, and 6.7 seconds and 2 minutes development (Ilford WT in LPD 1+2).

Straight print. Koni & 60 / wide open / Durst L1200 / Diff head / 105 Apo El Nikkor / playing some old Knopfler / Atwater Block Kolsch

The grain is virtually non-existent. The JPG doesn't do the print justice.

Poor Eva & Jeff never thought they were going to become part of a science experiment.

.

Larry Bullis · Jul 3, 2008

I get a sense of the tones in the Eva & Jeff image; it must be very beautiful.

My experience with the Germain version/XX was very gratifying, but I have elected to divert my attention to E12 starting with the standard mix, using the 5g. glycin. This because I'm thinking that I may want the flexibility in the amounts of glycin, and it would be better to coordinate my tests with the work of all you others out there.

I'm getting full emulsion speed at the nominal 200, with a density of right at 1.0 for zone VI, at 7.5 minutes, standard agitation. 10 minutes gives a nearly perfect +1. That's as far as I've got so far. This is all via densitometer; I haven't done the visual tests yet (I always want to see hardcopy).

Although my experience with this miracle elixer is limited right now, your success with a normal negative from E12 doesn't come as a surprise. I tested the Germain on a hot city street with a textured white wall in bright sunlight a couple of weeks ago. It's gorgeous. I'll try to get a scan of it up today. Patch tests at the same times (same run, actually) indicated that the development used was an approximate -1.

Paul Howell · Jul 3, 2008

df cardwell said:
At Photostock 2008, I made some pictures that confirmed that E-12 (with only 2.5 grams of glycin) can make a Normal negative on TMY.

Zones VIII and IX printed at the high end of their placement,
and gave me a choice between prints made at 8 seconds exposure with 1.5 minutes development, and 6.7 seconds and 2 minutes development (Ilford WT in LPD 1+2).

The grain is virtually non-existent. The JPG doesn't do the print justice.

Poor Eva & Jeff never thought they were going to become part of a science experiment.

It is an experiment with excellent results, very nice print, the tones are remarklable. I am going to try your reduced glycin formula for normal and contast SBR.

Larry Bullis · Jul 3, 2008

bowzart said:
I tested the Germain on a hot city street with a textured white wall in bright sunlight a couple of weeks ago. It's gorgeous. I'll try to get a scan of it up today. Patch tests at the same times (same run, actually) indicated that the development used was an approximate -1.

Here's the image. I have included the top margin with paper white set in the scan at 255 for reference.

Larry Bullis · Jul 3, 2008

Well, looks like this was the only frame on the street that wasn't bright sun - no hard shadow. It was pretty bright, though, and the shadows were deep. The patch densities verified visually as a minus I, and it printed straight up on Ilford MG Warmtone with #2 filter, Ilford MG developer at 2 min.

df cardwell · Jul 3, 2008

And this is the Eastman Double X ? Cool.

I'm glad I'm not working on this alone.

SURVEY: Edwal 12 Users' Experience

Paul Howell

patrickjames

Larry Bullis

df cardwell

patrickjames

Larry Bullis

c6h6o3

jim appleyard

df cardwell

Paul Howell

Larry Bullis

df cardwell

df cardwell

df cardwell

Larry Bullis

Paul Howell

Ian Grant

sun of sand

df cardwell

df cardwell

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Larry Bullis

Paul Howell

Larry Bullis

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SURVEY: Edwal 12 Users' Experience

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