Survey: Can we repair the electronics of photo devices ourselves?

Andreas Thaler · Nov 12, 2024

In various posts here I complain about the limited options for carrying out repairs to the electronics of photo equipment yourself.

It always comes down to the fact that the circuit is too complex to be understood and manageable.

Electronics in newer photo devices: too complex for DIY repairs?

The available circuit diagrams are of little use, as voltage values for measurements are usually not specified.

The troubleshooting chapters in repair manuals do not include errors that only become apparent decades later.

There are also limits to replacing electronic components because either it is only possible with a deep = risky disassembly of the device or it is not possible to do so using available soldering technology.

Also, the success of many electronic repairs can only be verified when the device is completely reassembled, which usually involves some effort.

Obtaining spare parts is also difficult, as there are usually several versions of the circuits and it is not always clear whether, for example, the available replacement IC from a discontinued camera is the right one.

However, since the majority of malfunctions in more or less modern photo devices involve the electronics, this means that the chances of repair are significantly limited.

I would be interested to know how you deal with the issue and what strategies you use for troubleshooting.

Where do you see opportunities and where are limitations?

Sirius Glass · Nov 12, 2024

As noted above even with access to electronic test equipment such as oscilloscopes, frequency generators, etc, one needs circuit diagrams, repair manuals, and spare parts and without them the chances of repair are limited. Even having an Electrical Engineering MS cannot overcome the absence of the listed items.

forest bagger · Nov 12, 2024

I read that "newer photo devices" as digital cameras and lenses with elecronics in it, and so I quoted "yes".

Paul Howell · Nov 12, 2024

As noted, lack parts such as chip sets, lack a training, Minolta, Nikon, Canon, and Pentax all had factory trained service techs, and cost to benefit is just too low. On another post someone had a Fuji MF cameras repaired by a company in Poland so in some cases with the right tools it is possible. But in general, I would say doubtful. I have bought second bodies for most of my AF 35mm cameras, Minolta 9000, 600si, 800si, 9xi and 7x. I dont have a second body for my 9 and 7, prices are just too high.

Andreas Thaler · Nov 12, 2024

forest bagger said:
I read that "newer photo devices" as digital cameras and lenses with elecronics in it, and so I quoted "yes".

Of course I was thinking of my 80s cameras

But repairing even newer cameras?

Andreas Thaler · Nov 12, 2024

Paul Howell said:
Minolta 9000

This electromechanical work of art is difficult to disassemble. It's unbelievable how many components were used and with what density.

Minolta (Maxxum/Alpha) 9000 AF: Removal of the mirrorbox/assembly, investigating the aperture issue, replacing the sticky damper in the shutter unit

An SLR from 1985 that is not only beautiful but also technically innovative, but which you don't read much about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minolta_Maxxum_9000 Inspired by @Paul Howell in...

www.photrio.com

Andreas Thaler · Nov 12, 2024

Sirius Glass said:
Even having an Electrical Engineering MS cannot overcome the absence of the listed items.

The more you know theoretically, the more difficult it becomes to repair things in practice

Paul Howell · Nov 12, 2024

Andreas Thaler said:
Of course I was thinking of my 80s cameras

But repairing even newer cameras?

F5 and 5, EOS 1V, Minolta 9, are they as complicated as the 9000? Maybe more functions on chip, less complicated wiring?

Taylor Nankervis · Nov 12, 2024

Andreas Thaler said:
Of course I was thinking of my 80s cameras

But repairing even newer cameras?

Cameras from the 1980s and 1990s e.g. the Canon EOS 1N, Nikon F3, FE2, FM and many others ... they may look "simple" to repair, but underneath is a revelation that has struck fear into the most ardent DIYer. I surmise that DIY repair is a firm 'maybe' if one knows what the problem is and where, he has the temperament of a jeweller and the precision of a surgeon together with the refined skills of electronic and mechanical assembly. Without these assets, I wouldn't go near them, and even if I did have time and skill, there is much more involved to simply repairing — calibration, being one thing.

Digital cameras — no, not an option.

chuckroast · Nov 12, 2024

Andreas Thaler said:
In various posts here I complain about the limited options for carrying out repairs to the electronics of photo equipment yourself.

It always comes down to the fact that the circuit is too complex to be understood and manageable.

View attachment 383281

Electronics in newer photo devices: too complex for DIY repairs?

The available circuit diagrams are of little use, as voltage values for measurements are usually not specified.

The troubleshooting chapters in repair manuals do not include errors that only become apparent decades later.

There are also limits to replacing electronic components because either it is only possible with a deep = risky disassembly of the device or it is not possible to do so using available soldering technology.

Also, the success of many electronic repairs can only be verified when the device is completely reassembled, which usually involves some effort.

Obtaining spare parts is also difficult, as there are usually several versions of the circuits and it is not always clear whether, for example, the available replacement IC from a discontinued camera is the right one.

However, since the majority of malfunctions in more or less modern photo devices involve the electronics, this means that the chances of repair are significantly limited.

I would be interested to know how you deal with the issue and what strategies you use for troubleshooting.

Where do you see opportunities and where are limitations?

You'll never fully understand the circuits on newer devices because they use custom digital silicon - e.g. Nikon Expeed electronics. This isn't like the analog stuff of old where fairly basic components were used and could be replaced.

The other issue is that the mechanical support for these parts is highly customized and often includes bespoke flex PC and surface mount electronics. That's why it took years for Phototech to come up with a way to fix old Fuji 645Zi and their notorious back panel LCD issues.

4season · Nov 12, 2024

I've also restored old computers, and there, electromechanical devices such as floppy and hard drives are major points of failure, along with our old friends, electrolytic capacitors, which sometimes leak their corrosive contents.

But I've dealt with corroded computer motherboards which I could not restore, and in those instances, I think corrosion may have penetrated into the encapsulated inner workings of the semiconductor devices. It's never a good sign when solder appears crumbly, or the legs of ICs are discolored, even green with corrosion.

Too, battery electrolyte can travel a surprising distance, traveling through wiring like molten wax through a candle wick.

Sirius Glass · Nov 13, 2024

Andreas Thaler said:
The more you know theoretically, the more difficult it becomes to repair things in practice

That is so true and the more experience one has the harder it is to start the task.

Laurent · Nov 13, 2024

For myself it's a no. I can fix electrical issues like broken wires, bad contacts, but I think that's it.

I may stretch it to changing a cap that's obviously bad.

Andreas Thaler · Nov 13, 2024

Sirius Glass said:
That is so true and the more experience one has the harder it is to start the task.

I am not suggesting that learning and understanding the electronic formulas is not important. I am saying that while all that detailed level of knowledge is necessary to correctly design electronics; it is not required to be able to logically and efficiently troubleshoot electrical circuits. I am not saying that the added knowledge would not be helpful; I am just saying that it is not a required prerequisite for success.

Darrel P. Kaiser: Basic Electrical Troubleshooting for Everyone

Andreas Thaler · Nov 13, 2024

Laurent said:
For myself it's a no. I can fix electrical issues like broken wires, bad contacts, but I think that's it.

I may stretch it to changing a cap that's obviously bad.

I think we still have to keep trying, but we have to stay realistic.

Andreas Thaler · Nov 13, 2024

chuckroast said:
You'll never fully understand the circuits on newer devices because they use custom digital silicon - e.g. Nikon Exceed electronics. This isn't like the analog stuff of old where fairly basic components were used and could be replaced.

The other issue is that the mechanical support for these parts is highly customized and often includes bespoke flex PC and surface mount electronics. That's why it took years for Phototech to come up with a way to fix old Fuji 645Zi and their notorious back panel LCD issues.

And all the associated technical documentation from the manufacturers probably no longer exists.

Disposed of along with all the spare parts that were still available.

Andreas Thaler · Nov 13, 2024

4season said:
I've also restored old computers, and there, electromechanical devices such as floppy and hard drives are major points of failure, along with our old friends, electrolytic capacitors, which sometimes leak their corrosive contents.

But I've dealt with corroded computer motherboards which I could not restore, and in those instances, I think corrosion may have penetrated into the encapsulated inner workings of the semiconductor devices. It's never a good sign when solder appears crumbly, or the legs of ICs are discolored, even green with corrosion.

Too, battery electrolyte can travel a surprising distance, traveling through wiring like molten wax through a candle wick.

The stuff is evil, but at least people recognize the problem and can do something about it.

Although I have the impression that current AA and AAA batteries also leak, but they no longer attack metal.

Sirius Glass · Nov 13, 2024

Andreas Thaler said:
The stuff is evil, but at least people recognize the problem and can do something about it.

Although I have the impression that current AA and AAA batteries also leak, but they no longer attack metal.

While that may be true not, the change came too late for my NIkon SB800. I still had to buy a replacement.

Andreas Thaler · Nov 13, 2024

Taylor Nankervis said:
Cameras from the 1980s and 1990s e.g. the Canon EOS 1N, Nikon F3, FE2, FM and many others ... they may look "simple" to repair, but underneath is a revelation that has struck fear into the most ardent DIYer. I surmise that DIY repair is a firm 'maybe' if one knows what the problem is and where, he has the temperament of a jeweller and the precision of a surgeon together with the refined skills of electronic and mechanical assembly. Without these assets, I wouldn't go near them, and even if I did have time and skill, there is much more involved to simply repairing — calibration, being one thing.

Digital cameras — no, not an option.

I wonder how the production of these cameras was organized, it must have been mostly manual work with all the soldered cables and discrete components.

Andreas Thaler · Nov 13, 2024

Paul Howell said:
F5 and 5, EOS 1V, Minolta 9, are they as complicated as the 9000? Maybe more functions on chip, less complicated wiring?

I think most of the electronics there are already integrated into ICs and there are fewer components.

Except for the mirror boxes and shutters, which will always remain electro-mechanical wonders.

Andreas Thaler · Nov 13, 2024

Sirius Glass said:
… and the more experience one has the harder it is to start the task.

Sometimes it's better not to think too much and just let your hands do the work...

Luckless · Nov 13, 2024

I feel that there is a big difference between wanting a working Camera of Specific Model according to original spec and wanting a working camera.

It isn't the 1970s or 80s, and I'm not restrained by tech or designs of the 70s or 80s. Nothing says I have to solve the exact same problems in the exact same ways some engineer I don't know came up with half a century ago. I also don't have to solve them in ways that are easy or reliable to mass produce, I just need to solve them in ways that I can get working as a one off, even if that means I need to rip it apart and rebuild it a few times.

The solution just has to [mostly] fit within the same physical constraints they had worked with, and offer functions that I'm happy with. And I'm free to bodge on any half baked work around or addition that I need to get the job done if it comes to it.

If I have the choice between a camera that has a weird lump growing off it for a different battery pack and micro controller than what the original engineers used and a paperweight, and I really really want a camera... Well, so what?

I'm not that worried if I happen to be driving some component slightly out of original spec if it means it is running within acceptable tolerance for my own spec. Might my solution have an increased and unacceptable risk of failure for a company running a warranty program? Sure. Am I going to lose sleep over the fact that the currently dead camera I'm rebuilding might break again sooner than it would have if I had been working to original spec? ... Not really.

Taylor Nankervis · Nov 13, 2024

Andreas Thaler said:
I wonder how the production of these cameras was organized, it must have been mostly manual work with all the soldered cables and discrete components.

A veritable rolling assembly line, with many people responsible for specific tasks and sections of the camera, all culminating in a critical eye who inspected each step, ultimately going on to the final QC, at which time a Pass meant the camera was cleaned, wrapped, boxed and prepared for despatch. Today, such things still happen, but it is more often than not by robotics concentrating on speed and efficiency. Some marques, like Leica, have resisted full manufacturing automation and robotics, and this might just be part of the appeal to follows of the brand that believe the human touch has more value than the speed and efficiency of masterful robotics.

Four years ago during a routine electronic and mechanical clean-up, I witnessed the inside story of my 1994-vintage EOS 1N. Any notion that it was a simple few circuit boards here and there was immediately dispelled — a very, very tightly packed and complex assortment of circuits and miniscule spaces, very few actual wires, and where they did exist, extremely small. Much of the logic and circuitry of this camera has ancestry to Canons T-series cameras, particularly the T90. Elsewhere in the camera, what was trail-blazing new technology in the dawning years of the 1990s served as a testing and proving ground for the digital beasts of burden was see today. How things have changed!

Andreas Thaler · Nov 13, 2024

Taylor Nankervis said:
A veritable rolling assembly line, with many people responsible for specific tasks and sections of the camera, all culminating in a critical eye who inspected each step, ultimately going on to the final QC, at which time a Pass meant the camera was cleaned, wrapped, boxed and prepared for despatch.

I read that the Minolta (Maxxum) 7000 from 1985 was the first SLR where no one had anymore a complete overview of the entire construction in detail.

4season · Nov 14, 2024

Andreas Thaler said:
Although I have the impression that current AA and AAA batteries also leak, but they no longer attack metal.

Alkaline batteries leak potassium hydroxide (KOH) - very corrosive.

Survey: Can we repair the electronics of photo devices ourselves?

Can you repair electronics in newer photo devices yourself?

Yes

No

It depends

Andreas Thaler

Sirius Glass

forest bagger

Paul Howell

Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

Minolta (Maxxum/Alpha) 9000 AF: Removal of the mirrorbox/assembly, investigating the aperture issue, replacing the sticky damper in the shutter unit

Andreas Thaler

Paul Howell

Taylor Nankervis

chuckroast

4season

Sirius Glass

Laurent

Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

Sirius Glass

Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

Andreas Thaler

Luckless

Taylor Nankervis

Andreas Thaler

4season

Survey: Can we repair the electronics of photo devices ourselves?

Can you repair electronics in newer photo devices yourself?

Yes

No

It depends

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency