Supposed Ansel Adams Negs Found at a Garage Sale

[Robert Brummitt]

I think I said before this must be like finding a long lost Rembrant or Picaso in your grand mothers attic.
The problem is that famous artists and now photographers are afraid they'll lose control of and flow of any monetary income.

 

[Chuck_P]

The video won't play for me---------I would be curious as to how the guy who sold that box for $45 happened to be in posession of them----------very interesting.

 

[df cardwell]

It seems like finding a box of Ansel Adam's old boots. Not much value.
We know AA went back to sites year after year to get a negative that would express his vision.
And we know how hard he worked to make the print. These plates, if they ARE his, probably should go to the big trash can.
I can hear Brett Weston telling him right now, " See, smart guy, I TOLD you to smash those old things into powder !"

What is unspoken is the potential of financial gain if copyright can be swept away
and a bunch of, a) Adams rejects, or, b) not Adams negs, can be reproduced and marketed.
It won't come down to 'proving' their authenticity, but gaining the copyright. That is all that keeps the market from being flooded with pictures attributed to AA, diluting the value of the real stuff.

I can't see how the plates, if genuine, don't belong outside the Adams Trust.

 

[keithwms]

Why Matthew Adams and the Foundation continues to discredit this work, especially in light of the fact he has never seen them is a mystery to us all.

I can think of many reasons why. Foremost, AA's reputation is firmly established, it isn't something you'd want to affect in any potentially negative way. Also, suppose there were a reason why those shots were given up. There may also have been some theft or sale or such... it may not be a chapter that the family wishes to reopen. The simplest theory I can imagine is that an established artist, looking back at his career and his reputation, might well discard substandard items or give them away with the understanding that they'd not be exhibited. And as we all know, Adams cultivated and guarded his reputation quite actively.

So... absent any indication from Adams himself that he wanted these images printed and publicized, and also absent any indication that they were stolen or somehow mistakenly misplaced, why would the family or foundation want to lend their name to this?

 

[df cardwell]

EDIT: "I can't see how the plates, if genuine, don't belong outside the Adams Trust."

"I can't see how the plates, if genuine, belong outside the Adams Trust."

If the plates are AA's work, they are his, and therefore, the Trusts. Finders' Keepers shouldn't apply.
If they are NOT AA's work, fine, Finder's Keepers.

If I recall correctly, a recently discovered Steichen Autochrome came into the hands of the Eastman House, yet the Steichen Trust controls how it might be exhibited. The is probably more to it than that, but there is at least THAT, and as such, the original may NOT be exhibited, but a copy may. While the Steichen provenance was impeccable, the similarity is clear. An unknown work comes to light through a third or fourth party, and the artists' Trust is still protected.

It seems the Finder is trying to act like the rightful owner in order to muddy question of ownership.

 

[DLawson]

EDIT: "I can't see how the plates, if genuine, don't belong outside the Adams Trust."

"I can't see how the plates, if genuine, belong outside the Adams Trust."

If the plates are AA's work, they are his, and therefore, the Trusts. Finders' Keepers shouldn't apply.
If they are NOT AA's work, fine, Finder's Keepers.

Almost.

If they are AA's, then the *rights* to the images belong to the Trust. The plates themselves were (apparently) disposed of during his lifetime and no more belong to the Trust than do his worn out boots from 10th grade.

This (assuming they are legit) is really no different from people who bought a print from AA.

I have a box full of my Grandfather's negatives. They are mine, mine, mine. I snagged them from the house clearing when no one else wanted them. I can hold them, look at them, attempt to print them. But, in a strict sense, if I wanted to publish those images (such as by selling my prints thereof), I'd probably have to get permission from my mother and her siblings.

 

[mark]

I forsee Lawyers making a healthy profit from this garage sale find.

 

[DLawson]

I forsee Lawyers making a healthy profit from this garage sale find.

New Thread: Your Most Recent Garage Sale Lawsuit.

 

[df cardwell]

If they are AA's, then the *rights* to the images belong to the Trust.

Exactly. And those rights will have to be defended,
or the REST of the Trust will be compromised. Whatever copyright law SAYS,
it is the defense of those rights that determine what of our work we get to keep.

 

[patrick alt]

Ansel's negatives Part 2

Hi again,

I just had lunch with Arnold Peter, the lawyer handling the lost Adam's negatives and according to him and his consultation with photographic copyright attorneys, this is not as cut and dry as it seems. I too thought there would be difficulties with the copyright, but it would take a protracted legal fight by the Foundation as it would be their argument to prove, not the owner of the plates. And since so far they have continually said these aren't Ansel's images, how then could they claim copyright. There will be a meeting next week to present the mountain (no pun intended) of evidence to Matthew and it is our desire for the Foundation to become joint partners with us in exposing to the world this lost body of work. In my report, I have completely destroyed all of the arguments that Matthew has set forth, which leaves him with nothing but obstinance as his only defense. We will see what happens.

In these 61 images there is work of the highest level, work not so successful, and work unlike anything you have see, such as sailboats shot in a decidedly pictorialist manner which are absolutely beautiful, but something you would never guess as to belonging to Ansel.

There were some comments made regarding crooked horizon lines. Trust me on this as I have personally handled all 61 negatives and examined them closely. What you may have seen were very early digital prints made from the negs that were cropped in all sorts of strange ways are are not truly representative of the work. These are Ansel's images after all and even at this young an age still had an exceptional command of craft and composition. So there are no tilted horizons in this work. Period. This amongst all of the other evidence has me completely convinced this is the work of this most extraordinary man. As someone who has studied his work and has read all of the books by and about him, along with my own experiences working with big cameras out in the world, there is such a strong presence as to be palpable and overwhelming.

There is planned to be a website to showcase all of the images and all of you can make your own conclusions. But as I said last post, these are the real deal.

Patrick Alt

 

[mikebarger]

I don't know if they are or are not Ansel's negatives.

Anytime a lot of money is to be made, experts come out of the woodwork and have an opinion.

Living in south central Missouri I guess Show-Me applies.

Mike

 

[Denis R]

waiting...

for the new AA "unclaimed - unauthorized" book to come out

If the trust wants nothing to do with the "forgotten 61", so be it!

As long as you can prove they were his and the trust won't claim them, have fun....

 

[david_mizen]

as a general rule he who asserts must prove and ownership of a negative is a separate matter from ownership of the copyright the negatives MAY be AA's but any prits made from them will NEVER be his. I dont know what fair trading laws apply in the USA but both here (Australia) and in the UK there are laws in relation to deceptive and misleading conduct and passing off. Any one who tries to sell any prints from these negatives is going to have to be very careful how they deal with any prints made. The fact the trust denies that the Negs are AA's does not prevent them running the legal argument that any prints made are being "passed off" and are prohibited.

 

[langedp]

I don't understand what the big deal is. Sure, if these are Ansel's negatives, that generates some interest and curiosity but they aren't PRINTS made by AA. The value is in the print made by AA's hands. I have purchased the Yosemite special edition prints made from Ansel's negatives by Alan Ross. They are beautiful prints done every bit as well as the master himself. Alan is a master printer taught by the master. But they're only worth $225. So even if I were to have some of Ansel's negatives and could print them very, very well, they're not worth much. That is unless I misrepresented them as Ansel Adams prints.

 

[Mike1234]

The profit is in the controversy and publication(s). There's a story here.

 

[olleorama]

'Crooked Horizon' sounds like a good name for a punk band.

 

[Denis R]

let me refer you to...

Ansel Adams
from
Barry Pritzker
ISBN 0-517-06034-5

Printed in Hong Kong

"Most of the photographs in this collec-
tion were reproduced from negatives of
origional Ansel Adams prints preserved by
the National Archives rather than form
origional negatives.

This book has not been authorized by
and has no connection with Ansel
Adams and the Ansel Adams Publishing
Rights Trust."

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

Very revealing (and undeniable) comment made that "people have been photographying Yosemite since the 1800s...". Just where did the AA link come from to these negs/plates? AA is well known for its attention to detail, and poorly considered composition and out-of-whack horizontals is uncharacteristic. Is it a spurious "jump-to" conclusion of ownership or was there some thorough, validated research? The AA Trust will have its work cut out for it getting proof of authorship, quite apart from assertion of copyright, if the AA link is proven (I doubt very, very much that will be the case).

 

[Sirius Glass]

Very revealing (and undeniable) comment made that "people have been photographying Yosemite since the 1800s...". Just where did the AA link come from to these negs/plates? AA is well known for its attention to detail, and poorly considered composition and out-of-whack horizontals is uncharacteristic. Is it a spurious "jump-to" conclusion of ownership or was there some thorough, validated research? The AA Trust will have its work cut out for it getting proof of authorship, quite apart from assertion of copyright, if the AA link is proven (I doubt very, very much that will be the case).

You might want to read the rest of the posts in this thread. There is a preponderance of evidence pointing in the direction opposite to your conclusions.

Steve

 

[DLawson]

'Crooked Horizon' sounds like a good name for a punk band.

With the opening act, Tilted Ansel.

 

[SchwinnParamount]

With the opening act, Tilted Ansel.

What is an "Ansel"?

I know the guy you are prolly referring to was never tilted. If he was then his camera could never be level. Maybe I should just have another scotch.

 

[mpirie]

With the opening act, Tilted Ansel.

Playing tracks from their new CD: "Only the lawyers will get richer!" and followed by a "Spot the difference" tour!

 

[apeter]

REPORT OF EXPERTS ON AUTHENTICATION OF ADAM'S LOST NEGATIVES TO BE RELEASED SOON

I am the entertainment attorney who has been working with a group of experts for the past year to once and for all prove that these negatives were in fact created by Ansel Adams. Our experts included two court qualified hand-writing analysts, the former Curator of the Boston Museum of Fine Arts and a meteorologist who was engaged to examine an authenticated Ansel Adams print and one virtually identical negative among those found at the garage sale. The task of this expert was to determine whether by looking at the cloud formation, shadows and snow drifts, it was possible to determine if the two images were captured on the same day and at the same time. Last but not least, on our team was Mr. Patrick Alt who I had the pleasure to work with and learn from. His expertise in this area is beyond reproach. After obtaining written reports from these experts, we asked a former FBI Agent and Section Chief and a former Assistant United States Attorney and Legal Commentator on ABC News to tell us if the evidence was sufficient under the highest standard used in US courts (beyond a reasonable doubt). In addition, we have been regularly monitoring this blog to make sure we address as many of the questions raised as possible. The issues raised in this string were insightful and highly relevant. We anticipate releasing the final results of our investigation within the next two weeks. If you are interested in being notified of the results and findings, please register at www.ricknorsigian.com. Thank you for your attention to this subject and for the perhaps unknowing assistance you provided with your questions and comments. And, by the way, I appreciated the legal discussion and the lawyer comments the most!

 

[apeter]

Sign-Up To See Never Before Seen Photographs By Ansel Adams

Those of you following the release of the report authenticating the Ansel Adams glass negatives be sure and sign up at www.ricknorsigian.com and you will have the chance to see 16 of the most stunning images before anyone else in the world.

 

[Swordfish]

Hi Everyone,

I normally don't reply to internet discussions, but since this one came up I thought I'd chime in.

Hey Patrick !

Michael Lardizabal here.........didn't know you did garage sales ! regardless, good on you for stumbling across this one.

I've read that Mary verified that the writing on the glassines are that of Virginia Adams. If thats the case, I don't see why these aren't AA's then.

I've known Jim and Mary Alinder for decades. They've shown my work in New York and own a few examples themselves .

The Alinder's , as far as I'm concerned...are "THE" authorities when it comes to anything Ansel.

My guess ..... these are his pre-Parmelian whole plates. He was still very young when he made these, so he was aiming his lens at anything that caught his fancy.

Is the work formative ??? Without seeing the images, hard to say, but probably indicative of the work to come.

Have fun with this !

Hope all is well.

Michael