Supposed Ansel Adams Negs Found at a Garage Sale

[lxdude]

I've got an original ANSI text rendition of the last supper that I'm offering for a mere $10,000. (I bet Chris W needs this one. )

You mean ASCII?
Just ASCIIng.

 

[Galah]

Recently there was a documentary concerning a British family of art forgers, who made surprising amounts of money fooling experts in the world of antiquities, and selling their forgeries to no less expert an institution than the British Museum, for enormous amounts.

Even when some suspicious art collector -eventually- contacted the police, the forgers were still able to continue "forging" ahead, unchecked, for almost another decade, before being arrested and charged.:rolleyes:

All these antiquities had been manufactured in the bedroom and garden shed of their nerdy son, who was -essentially- a school dropout.

So, how hard can it be?

Check out this link:

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/...-conned-british-museums-with-10m-forgeries.do

 

[Toffle]

You mean ASCII?
Just ASCIIng.

Nope... ANSI. I actually had to look it up, it's been so long since I've thought in those terms. :rolleyes:

 

[lxdude]

Nope... ANSI. I actually had to look it up, it's been so long since I've thought in those terms. :rolleyes:

Well, thanks for ANSIring.

 

[AgX]

That story just reached german national radiio at noon.

But in an interview a german senior photo-gallery owner

-) thought the prices 2 magnitudes too high, even if authenticitated

-) brought up the same doubts as here, about someone else making those photograph, maybe in a session with Adams

-) he called the story humbug.

 

[Barry S]

Ansel Adams or...Uncle Earl from Fresno?

http://www.ktvu.com/news/24432262/detail.html?cxntlid=cmg_cntnt_rss

 

[ic-racer]

Ansel Adams or...Uncle Earl from Fresno?

http://www.ktvu.com/news/24432262/detail.html?cxntlid=cmg_cntnt_rss

Now we are on to something. Maybe Uncle Earl will be the next Bellocq...maybe he has some more plates hidden in his sofa...

 

[cfclark]

Now we are on to something. Maybe Uncle Earl will be the next Bellocq...maybe he has some more plates hidden in his sofa...

There's a way to spin this: Uncle Earl was Ansel's early mentor, right?

Funny that due to Ansel Adams' later fame, after decades of refining his technique, any photograph taken on a plate of any landscape in the American West automatically becomes an Ansel Adams photograph, as if he was the first to have the idea of photographing Yosemite.

I remember a commercial (for what, I don't remember) in which a man unearths a painting at a yard sale with the partial signature "Pic--". The implication is, he's found a Picasso! Once the painting is cleaned, the full signature is exposed, and his wife points out, "it's a Pickleman!" I think we may have a few Picklemans here.

 

[JBrunner]

I think they are EW's.

 

[Perry Way]

After reading the numerous "news articles" on the internet, by such "news agencies" such as CBS, ABC, MSNBC, CNN and more, I am convinced that modern day news agencies are simply promulgators of marketing and apply very little investigative reporting. Over-sensationalism for the sake of confusing the masses used to have a color. Yellow!

These "news agencies" are part of the urban myth problem in our modern world. What a dichotomy.. modern and myth. Wow!

 

[JBrunner]

After reading the numerous "news articles" on the internet, by such "news agencies" such as CBS, ABC, MSNBC, CNN and more, I am convinced that modern day news agencies are simply promulgators of marketing and apply very little investigative reporting. Over-sensationalism for the sake of confusing the masses used to have a color. Yellow!

These "news agencies" are part of the urban myth problem in our modern world. What a dichotomy.. modern and myth. Wow!

I'm always amused when people discover this for the first time. Congrats!! Welcome to the enlightened minority.

 

[eclarke]

There's a way to spin this: Uncle Earl was Ansel's early mentor, right?

Funny that due to Ansel Adams' later fame, after decades of refining his technique, any photograph taken on a plate of any landscape in the American West automatically becomes an Ansel Adams photograph, as if he was the first to have the idea of photographing Yosemite.

I remember a commercial (for what, I don't remember) in which a man unearths a painting at a yard sale with the partial signature "Pic--". The implication is, he's found a Picasso! Once the painting is cleaned, the full signature is exposed, and his wife points out, "it's a Pickleman!" I think we may have a few Picklemans here.

Too true, the article About Uncle Earl says 1923, in 1923, people were traveling everywhere in their new Fords and a lot of people would have photographed with plates. My 1913 Ansco developing book only has formulas for plates.

 

[lxdude]

There's a way to spin this: Uncle Earl was Ansel's early mentor, right?

They did say they were Earl-y Adams.

 

[holmburgers]

If they are really Earl's photographs, then Norsigian is going to have a lot of debt paying off his lawyer, the web hosting bills and all those now-worthless prints he's made.

 

[patrickjames]

I think the images could be more interesting if they are Uncle Earl's. Hopefully Uncle Earl made a lot of prints.

 

[paul ewins]

Maybe Uncle Earl will become the American Atget.

 

[Darkroom317]

After reading the numerous "news articles" on the internet, by such "news agencies" such as CBS, ABC, MSNBC, CNN and more, I am convinced that modern day news agencies are simply promulgators of marketing and apply very little investigative reporting. Over-sensationalism for the sake of confusing the masses used to have a color. Yellow!

These "news agencies" are part of the urban myth problem in our modern world. What a dichotomy.. modern and myth. Wow!

I am a journalism student and these agencies make my stomach turn every time I watch them.

 

[Leigh Youdale]

If they are really Earl's photographs, then Norsigian is going to have a lot of debt paying off his lawyer, the web hosting bills and all those now-worthless prints he's made.

I think the whole thing was probably financed on a contingency basis by his lawyer, the art dealer and maybe some of the experts they dredged up. They all stood to make a killing it it took wings. The guy holding the plates probably chipped in but I suspect a lot of the finance came from venture capitalists who were quite close to the matter.

 

[lxdude]

Uncle Earl.

I love it- the perfect name for a perfectly timed plot twist.

 

[apeter]

Ladies and Genlemen-

I am the attorney who put together the investigative team. The team included experts in the area of art, photography, handwriting analysis, forensics and burden of proof analysis. I am attaching a link to the report and request that when you read it that you pay particular attention to the comments and conclusions of your colleague and a member of this forum Patrick Alt. Mr. Alt was one of our esteemed experts and is a working large format photographer with over 40 years of experience. While not everyone may agree with the conclusions of the experts, their credentials are beyond reproach and none of them have any financial interest in the project. In any event, we hope that the current dialogue on this issue will generate interest among a new generation in the art of photography and the genius of Ansel Adams.

http://www.ricknorsigian.com/lost_reports/Final_Report_AP_072610.pdf

 

[Leigh Youdale]

Ladies and Genlemen-

http://www.ricknorsigian.com/lost_reports/Final_Report_AP_072610.pdf

Just for fun, I went through the document. All quotes out of context, but I found -

reasonable degree of probability
most probably
the only probability
within a high degree of probability
supports the proposition

my opinion x4
deductive reasoning
no other explanation is reasonable or possible
would not be unreasonable
fairly comparable
I believe that the reasonable individual
immediately dismissed
no longer subject to consideration

easily explained
the tripod sank (you've got to love that one!)

I am/has me/ convinced x2
have found no reason
it is very easy to imagine
I believe/it is my belief/I think x6

will never be possible to know
with further study
cannot...take us to the point of certainty
not completely verifiable
subjective evaluation

The expert on "Evidence and Burden Of Proof Analysis", Manny Medrano, described as "an Emmy award-winning broadcast journalist and experienced trial attorney" and who boasted “I HAVE SENT PEOPLE TO PRISON, FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES, FOR FAR LESS EVIDENCE THAN I HAVE SEEN IN THIS CASE" should perhaps undergo some investigation himself for possible mistrials.

 

[apeter]

Just for fun, I went through the document. All quotes out of context, but I found -

reasonable degree of probability
most probably
the only probability
within a high degree of probability
supports the proposition

my opinion x4
deductive reasoning
no other explanation is reasonable or possible
would not be unreasonable
fairly comparable
I believe that the reasonable individual
immediately dismissed
no longer subject to consideration

easily explained
the tripod sank (you've got to love that one!)

I am/has me/ convinced x2
have found no reason
it is very easy to imagine
I believe/it is my belief/I think x6

will never be possible to know
with further study
cannot...take us to the point of certainty
not completely verifiable
subjective evaluation

The expert on "Evidence and Burden Of Proof Analysis", Manny Medrano, described as "an Emmy award-winning broadcast journalist and experienced trial attorney" and who boasted “I HAVE SENT PEOPLE TO PRISON, FOR THE REST OF THEIR LIVES, FOR FAR LESS EVIDENCE THAN I HAVE SEEN IN THIS CASE" should perhaps undergo some investigation himself for possible mistrials.

Sorry but I think you might have missed the statement of Patrick Alt, the large format photographer and member of this forum, so I have taken the liberty of attaching his comments from an earlier post. As I indicated he has no financial interest in this matter.



Hi everyone,

Just thought I would give you all of the story re the Ansel Adams lost negatives. The evidience is so overwhelming as to make your head spin. So in a nutshell here are the facts;

Shot on 6 1/2 X 8 1/2 glass plates with a Korona as confirmed on page 3 of Ansels book Examples. This was one of his primary cameras of the 1920's. By coincidence, I also own the same camera.

Several images have definite fire damage due to his studio fire in 1937.

Virginia Adams handwriting are on the paper sleeves. Confirmed by independent hand writing analysis.

These are definitely in the style of Ansel's work as they evolved over a period of time. To see them as I did you could just feel his presence.

Lastly, one of the plates are an almost exact match to 2 5 X 7 images in The Center for Creative Photography in Tuscon. This is an image of a Jeffries Pine and close examination show the distant snow pack to be identical, meaning these images were taken moments apart. The is undeniable proof.

Lastly, these negs were originally found in LA after the time Ansel was here in LA teaching at Art Center. I believe he brought them down as teaching tools.

All of this evidence has convinced me without a shadow of a doubt that these are indeed lost treasures of Ansels early work that survived his fire. I am so honored to have been chosen to be a part of this team of experts and my knowledge of both Ansel's work and of being a working large format photographer has helped make this what I believe to be an airtight case. Why Matthew Adams and the Foundation continues to discredit this work, especially in light of the fact he has never seen them is a mystery to us all. It has been an incredible experience to hold these images in my hands. They are the real deal.

Patrick Alt

 

[Leigh Youdale]

No, I didn't miss it, and several of the quotes are taken from his report.

 

[2F/2F]

Sorry but I think you might have missed the statement of Patrick Alt, the large format photographer and member of this forum, so I have taken the liberty of attaching his comments from an earlier post. As I indicated he has no financial interest in this matter.



Hi everyone,

Just thought I would give you all of the story re the Ansel Adams lost negatives. The evidience is so overwhelming as to make your head spin. So in a nutshell here are the facts;

Shot on 6 1/2 X 8 1/2 glass plates with a Korona as confirmed on page 3 of Ansels book Examples. This was one of his primary cameras of the 1920's. By coincidence, I also own the same camera.

Several images have definite fire damage due to his studio fire in 1937.

Virginia Adams handwriting are on the paper sleeves. Confirmed by independent hand writing analysis.

These are definitely in the style of Ansel's work as they evolved over a period of time. To see them as I did you could just feel his presence.

Lastly, one of the plates are an almost exact match to 2 5 X 7 images in The Center for Creative Photography in Tuscon. This is an image of a Jeffries Pine and close examination show the distant snow pack to be identical, meaning these images were taken moments apart. The is undeniable proof.

Lastly, these negs were originally found in LA after the time Ansel was here in LA teaching at Art Center. I believe he brought them down as teaching tools.

All of this evidence has convinced me without a shadow of a doubt that these are indeed lost treasures of Ansels early work that survived his fire. I am so honored to have been chosen to be a part of this team of experts and my knowledge of both Ansel's work and of being a working large format photographer has helped make this what I believe to be an airtight case. Why Matthew Adams and the Foundation continues to discredit this work, especially in light of the fact he has never seen them is a mystery to us all. It has been an incredible experience to hold these images in my hands. They are the real deal.

Patrick Alt

As I have previously stated in this thread, I have been following the story for years, and have probably read most of the articles on the matter, from all angles. I personally believe that they are more than likely Adams' negs. I have no problem believing this.

I have a problem with less-than-stellar photos that Adams never published (or even printed, apparently), thus likely never would have, being poorly technically reproduced in a medium that is "acceptable" at best and sold at out-of-hand prices using a trademark to which Mr. Norsigian does not have rights. Whether they are Adams' negs or not, his name is being used to give them value.

They are a historical find, but they should stop being described as being as good as they are, and they should be treated as artifacts of photographic history, not an economic goldmine for Mr. Norsigian. Just be honest. Say they are almost indisputably images made by Adams, that they are nowhere close to the level of quality of his more well known work, state that he chose never to publish them, and that they are best viewed as the work of a budding artist, reproduce them with excellent artistry using a medium Adams would have, and charge reasonable prices for the prints.

To me, it is not about whether they are or are not Adams' negatives. It is about Mr. Norsigian's presentation of the work, which has little to do with photography, and seems to be geared only toward satisfying his personal greed.

 

[patrickjames]

I wanted to believe that these negs were Ansel's, but the misspelling on the envelopes and the apparent match (by your expert's standards) to "Uncle" Earl Brook's print puts a reasonable doubt in my mind. Did Virginia always misspell the names? Was Ansel the only person to ever take a photograph of the tree? Uncle Earl lived in Fresno and by golly where were those negatives found?

How do you explain these simple facts? Your case appears to me to be one of wishful thinking with the end goal of trying to monetize the tenuous conclusion that "experts" whom you paid came up with for you. But hey, that is just my opinion.