Super 8 movie camera

Rosssiiii · Dec 26, 2024

Hello

Can i have some advice about cheap/popular but good quality models that i could find on used marked and what to check to see if they work or not ?

i heard well about Canon XL models as the 514,814 or the 1014.

these models are all very good right ? but 514 have not video stabilization right ?
only the XLS version are able to capture the audio itself on film, but nowadays are not anymore available films where you can store audio on it right ?
So i could buy a 514 XL because have high quality zoom lens but not stabilization and a 1014 that have video stabilization and is the highest on the rank ?
what is the difference between 814 and 1014 ?

Chan Tran · Dec 26, 2024

I had the 1014 XLS it doesn't have stabilization. I don't know of any camera that had stabilization back then. They are film camera and not video. The last 2 digits 14 stand for f/1.4 and the firs 5, 8 or 10 is the zoom range so the 814 has 8x zoom and the 1014 has 10x zoom.
I bought the 1014 at estate sales for $110 and sold it for $350 a number of years later. I shot 1 roll with it.

Dan Fromm · Dec 26, 2024

Video? Are you sure? Stabilization? New idea.

Most cine cameras have rotating sector shutters. In Canon-speak, the XL suffix in a camera's name means that the shutter's open angle is large, admits more light. The S suffix means that the camera will record sound on S8 sound film, which is no longer available. Chan Tran explained how to interpret the camera' names in post #2 above.

One thing to check is whether the zoom is parfocal. Adjust the viewfinder optic to suit your eye, zoom the lens to its longest focal length, focus on a subject, zoom to the shortest focal length. If the plane of best focus shifts the lens is not parfocal and won't hold focus when zoomed. Since best practice is to focus at the longest focal length and then set focal length to get the image you want, don't buy an S8 camera whose lens is not parfocal.

Otherwise, test with film, check for exposure, steadiness and, if the camera offers a choice of speeds, test them too. I used to shoot the dial of a digital wristwatch to check filming speed accuracy. All that running an empty camera tests is whether the motor works at all.

Are you sure you want to shoot S8? I ask because film and processing are much more expensive than they used to be and a decent digital interchangeable lens camera can have IS and can give better quality results than digitized S8 at lower cost. Be aware that when you try to make a movie most of the footage you shoot will end up on the cutting room floor. Stanley Kubrick, who was a madman, shot 100' of film per 1' used. "Hollywood" shoots around 10 to 1. I managed to shoot around 4 to 1 and some of the footage that I used was poor.

Before you spend money on equipment buy a copy of Lenny Lipton's The Super8 Book. It is pretty much about equipment, not about cinematography. In it, Lenny reports that a substantial fraction of the brand new S8 cameras he tested were defective as delivered by the manufacturers. This is consistent with my experience with used S8 cameras. Most of the ones I looked at were duds. But Lenny's book will give you an idea of which S8 cameras are better. Back when, many makers made decent -- if they worked properly -- S8 cameras.

MattKing · Dec 26, 2024

Thread moved and title tweaked.

cmacd123 · Dec 26, 2024

there WERE 8mm Video Cameras, But Idoubt if the tape has been made for many decades. sound like you are looking for a "Super 8" film Movie Camera?

Chan Tran · Dec 26, 2024

cmacd123 said:
there WERE 8mm Video Cameras, But Idoubt if the tape has been made for many decades. sound like you are looking for a "Super 8" film Movie Camera?

Well there were 8mm, Hi8, Digital 8 video cameras but those the OP was talking about were Super 8 movie camera.

Donald Qualls · Dec 27, 2024

Chan Tran said:
Super 8 movie camera.

Of course, there was also Double 8, Double Super 8, Cartridge 8, and probably at least one other 8 mm format I'm forgetting -- but if you just say Super 8, you're talking about the Kodak-originated, single run cartridges (as opposed to "flip and rerun"). The biggest down side of these is that once film manufacturers stop supporting it, those cameras become paperweights (though there were a lot of still camera formats that had the same problem over the past century and a half). At present, the easy film to buy is Super 8 (from Kodak only, AFAIK) and Double 8 (on 16 mm spools to be slit after processing, on your own to avoid double exposing).

I once owned a Cartridge 8 camera, shot one cartridge, then (in the early 1980s!) found out what it would cost to process the film and reload the cartridge...

btaylor · Dec 27, 2024

I have had a Canon 1014xls since the late ‘70s. It’s very good. Had it serviced once when the light meter acted up. I made many student films with it. The sound recording portion of the camera is now useless as S8 Sound cartridges have not been made for decades.
As previously mentioned there is no image stabilization built into any Super 8 film camera. Anything but perhaps the very earliest zoom lenses will be parfocal.
I think only the latest Kodak S8 camera has a video tap.
Another helpful resource might be the “Super 8 in the Video Age” book that Brodsky and Treadway wrote back in the day.

Dan Fromm · Dec 27, 2024

btaylor said:
Anything but perhaps the very earliest zoom lenses will be parfocal.

Sir, you are an optimist. Remember that we're talking about old cameras that have been used and, sometimes, abused. That's what I looked at when I started out with S8 and believe me, I encountered a fair number of used S8 cameras whose zoom lenses were not parfocal. Use can do it. I have an aged Nikon 35-70/3.3-4.5 AIS that was parfocal when new and now isn't.

EarlJam · Dec 27, 2024

The Bolex 155 Macrozoom was one of the more capable Super8 cameras in its heyday. The lens (f1.8, 8.5 to 30 mm) is a manual zoom but quite spectacular in performance with macro capability. In addition to normal motion capture, the camera is also capable of single-frame exposure for animation (which I used quite a bit in early film school days). The motor (4x AA batteries) and meter (2x PX13 mercury cells) are powered separately; the PX13 issue is a dealbreaker in most countries.

btaylor · Dec 28, 2024

Dan Fromm said:
Sir, you are an optimist. Remember that we're talking about old cameras that have been used and, sometimes, abused. That's what I looked at when I started out with S8 and believe me, I encountered a fair number of used S8 cameras whose zoom lenses were not parfocal. Use can do it. I have an aged Nikon 35-70/3.3-4.5 AIS that was parfocal when new and now isn't.

Of course I was referring to when they were in spec. All these years later, that would be a good thing to check.
Super 8 was not a professional format and the gear with few exceptions was oriented towards the home movie market in cost and quality.

Dan Fromm · Dec 28, 2024

btaylor said:
Of course I was referring to when they were in spec. All these years later, that would be a good thing to check.
Super 8 was not a professional format and the gear with few exceptions was oriented towards the home movie market in cost and quality.

Y'r info might have been ok if new cameras were still available, but all that's available to the OP is used gear. The terrifying thing about The Super8 Book is that Lenny tested brand new cameras. As delivered they weren't all in spec.

Afterthought for the OP. In the days when Super 8 was current we spelled "image stabilization" TRIPOD. "Hollywood" used Steadicams and similar devices, but these were too expensive for amateurs.

Kino · Dec 28, 2024

Super 8mm was the gateway drug...

Dan Fromm · Dec 28, 2024

Kino said:
Super 8mm was the gateway drug...

Right. To 9.5.

btaylor · Dec 28, 2024

Kino said:
Super 8mm was the gateway drug...

So true!
I finally made it to 35mm and then digital killed it. It was fun while it lasted.

Chan Tran · Dec 29, 2024

About 10 years ago I saw a Beaulieu 4008 in an estate sales for like $100. I thought I could buy it and resale for profit but I didn't lke all the hassel of doing it. I did buy the Marantz PMD222 cassette recorder for $5. I guess since the guy used the 4008 which doesn't have sound he used the Marantz to record sound.
By the way I found the super 8 book in my bookshelf. The price was $6.95 wow.

Dan Fromm · Dec 29, 2024

Chan Tran said:
About 10 years ago I saw a Beaulieu 4008 in an estate sales for like $100. I thought I could buy it and resale for profit but I didn't lke all the hassel of doing it. I did buy the Marantz PMD222 cassette recorder for $5. I guess since the guy used the 4008 which doesn't have sound he used the Marantz to record sound.
By the way I found the super 8 book in my bookshelf. The price was $6.95 wow.

Wot? No crystal sync?

ic-racer · Dec 29, 2024

Dual-8 --> the cameras/film gates, etc are metal. More choice of lenses too.

Stabilization --> Gyro.

Dan Fromm · Dec 29, 2024

ic-racer said:
Dual-8 --> the cameras/film gates, etc are metal. More choice of lenses too.

Beaulieu 4008, 5008, 6008, 7008? All c-mount. Fuji ZC-1000? Single 8, c-mount. But Single 8 is dead.

Alan Edward Klein · Dec 29, 2024

Kino said:
Super 8mm was the gateway drug...

My regular 8mm camera was the gateway.

ic-racer · Dec 29, 2024

Dan Fromm said:
Beaulieu 4008, 5008, 6008, 7008? All c-mount. Fuji ZC-1000? Single 8, c-mount. But Single 8 is dead.

Nice cameras for shure! But batteries and electronics can be an issue. Still with plastic cartridge. CLA not so well documented as Bolex. C-mount 8mm lenses? Rare. Most 8mm lenses are D.

Dan Fromm · Dec 29, 2024

ic-racer said:
Nice cameras for shure! But batteries and electronics can be an issue. Still with plastic cartridge. CLA not so well documented as Bolex. C-mount 8mm lenses? Rare. Most 8mm lenses are D.

Actually, the big issue with Beaulieus is general flakiness. I made external battery packs for mine.

C-mount lenses for S8? The zooms made for Beaulieus and the ZC-1000. Otherwise, there are gazillions of C-mount lenses for 16 mm cameras. I used to have a bunch. H8-Rex mount has C-mount threading with a shorter register. I still have a 25/1.4 MacroSwitar whose H8Rx mount was machined so that its far focusing distance on a C-mount camera was ~ 1m. Wonderful lens, very useful.

Harry Callahan · Dec 29, 2024

Dan Fromm said:
Beaulieu 4008, 5008, 6008, 7008? All c-mount. Fuji ZC-1000? Single 8, c-mount. But Single 8 is dead.

Actually Single-8 is back a little:

Films

Wir geben analogen Kameras ihre Würde zurück!

clickundsurr.de

Middle to bottom of the page, next page has one more film type. But it`s only about 40ft per cartridge and only within the EU. But maybe interesting for the TO.

Dan Fromm · Dec 30, 2024

Harry Callahan said:
Actually Single-8 is back a little:

Middle to bottom of the page, next page has one more film type. But it`s only about 40ft per cartridge and only within the EU. But maybe interesting for the TO.

Thanks very much for the correction. I suppose I'm glad that it is still available, but oh! the price. Prohibitive isn't a strong enough word.

Rosssiiii · Dec 30, 2024

Chan Tran said:
I had the 1014 XLS it doesn't have stabilization. I don't know of any camera that had stabilization back then. They are film camera and not video. The last 2 digits 14 stand for f/1.4 and the firs 5, 8 or 10 is the zoom range so the 814 has 8x zoom and the 1014 has 10x zoom.
I bought the 1014 at estate sales for $110 and sold it for $350 a number of years later. I shot 1 roll with it.

I don't know why, but chat gpt told me that there was stabilizzation on these models.
anyway it's okay

Dan Fromm said:
Video? Are you sure? Stabilization? New idea.

Most cine cameras have rotating sector shutters. In Canon-speak, the XL suffix in a camera's name means that the shutter's open angle is large, admits more light. The S suffix means that the camera will record sound on S8 sound film, which is no longer available. Chan Tran explained how to interpret the camera' names in post #2 above.

One thing to check is whether the zoom is parfocal. Adjust the viewfinder optic to suit your eye, zoom the lens to its longest focal length, focus on a subject, zoom to the shortest focal length. If the plane of best focus shifts the lens is not parfocal and won't hold focus when zoomed. Since best practice is to focus at the longest focal length and then set focal length to get the image you want, don't buy an S8 camera whose lens is not parfocal.

Otherwise, test with film, check for exposure, steadiness and, if the camera offers a choice of speeds, test them too. I used to shoot the dial of a digital wristwatch to check filming speed accuracy. All that running an empty camera tests is whether the motor works at all.

Are you sure you want to shoot S8? I ask because film and processing are much more expensive than they used to be and a decent digital interchangeable lens camera can have IS and can give better quality results than digitized S8 at lower cost. Be aware that when you try to make a movie most of the footage you shoot will end up on the cutting room floor. Stanley Kubrick, who was a madman, shot 100' of film per 1' used. "Hollywood" shoots around 10 to 1. I managed to shoot around 4 to 1 and some of the footage that I used was poor.

Before you spend money on equipment buy a copy of Lenny Lipton's The Super8 Book. It is pretty much about equipment, not about cinematography. In it, Lenny reports that a substantial fraction of the brand new S8 cameras he tested were defective as delivered by the manufacturers. This is consistent with my experience with used S8 cameras. Most of the ones I looked at were duds. But Lenny's book will give you an idea of which S8 cameras are better. Back when, many makers made decent -- if they worked properly -- S8 cameras.

My idea was to use a super 8 camera to have an experience with that, years ago i have started to use 35mm film camera and 6x4.5 and i have enjoyed a lot the film experience, very different from modern photography, i appreciate more.

I used to shoot the dial of a digital wristwatch to check filming speed accuracy.

How you can understand that the filming speed is fine with that test , explain me better please ?

btaylor said:
So true!
I finally made it to 35mm and then digital killed it. It was fun while it lasted.

But for video, Super 8 was the most used standard in amatorial world right ?
35mm is just for photography or i'm wrong ?

So these Canon XL models as the 514,814 or the 1014 should have parfocal lenses right ?
What batteries are used to turn the motor and to check that it works ?
what brand is that "Beaulieus" , it was popular as the canon ?
that Beaulieus looks like it has interchangeable lenses, are there any super 8 cameras (or a bit more new but still analogue camera) whose lenses are interchangeable and can also be mounted on ML cameras using special adapters?

Super 8 movie camera

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